Occupy Calgary/Do Not Merge

[First Lady]

Sounds like offer will be turned down by OC

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/cal...405/story.html

Here is the wording of City's offer:

The offer will be that we will assist in obtaining appropriate venues for establishing a forum for public dialog on the Occupy Calgary issues. We are suggesting 4 sessions, perhaps one on a Saturday and 3 evening sessions. Locations are up for discussion as is format.

In addition to securing suitable locations, we will cover any rental costs for the venue. Additionally, we will provide support from our facilitator and planners tohelp set it up if the group desires.

We will also assist in promoting the venues and the forums.

We are open to maintaining a presence on the plaza during normal operational hours, a single booth for the purpose of disseminating information on the Occupy Calgary position and goals as to promote the forums.

In exchange, we would like an orderly withdrawal from Olympic Plaza and removal of materials.

Our intent would be to promote this as a peaceful negotiated agreement to move the vision of OC forward into the next steps of public dialogue.

This will be promoted as a win for both agencies and a move forward, not a shut down.

Link to source.

[OffsideSpecialist]

If they turn it down, it sounds like they are more interested in attention than actually getting things done to me...

[Red Ice Player]

I thought about those reeking losers lying together in their little tents trying not to freeze tonight. I plugged in my car and laughed maniacally.

[Dion]

If they turn it down it then it never was about promoting their message. The city is extending a olive branch but these idots appear to be looking for a violent confrontation.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Dion

If they turn it down it then it never was about promoting their message. The city is extending a olive branch but these idots appear to be looking for a violent confrontation.

Aaron Doncaster is quoted as saying “Personally, if I had my own choice, I would light this on fire,”

Google his name.

[Pizza]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Aaron Doncaster is quoted as saying “Personally, if I had my own choice, I would light this on fire,”

Google his name.

“Personally, if I had my own choice, I would light this on fire,” Doncaster said, holding a copy of the city’s offer.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/cal...405/story.html

[Dion]

In order for a successful advocacy effort to happen, the message must resonate with the greater population. In the beginning the messaging was there: equality. Since then, the messaging has been inconsistent and confused. We’ve had everything from municipal campaign finance reform (which I support strongly) to someone maybe getting fired from a job for their participation in occupy Calgary.... or maybe making that story up. Occupy Calgary even states that Paul Hughes is not their spokesperson. They actually don’t appear to have one.

The buckshot of messages from occupy Calgary has left supporters complacent. Take my spouse for example who strongly feels that occupy Calgary is a legitimate force for change and we do need to stand up against the inequity in society. After a good healthy debate, I finally ask the essence of the question:

“If occupy Calgary resonates with you so much and you support what they are doing, why aren’t you down there with them?”

Response: “It’s not my cause”.

If this type of thinking is pervasive, then occupy Calgary is clearly resonating, but not enough to drive people to action. The confused messaging is diluting their intent and eroding what connection they did have with the mass of Calgarians who were curious.

I’ve walked by the occupy Calgary camp at Olympic Plaza everyday due to work. At first there was a bustle, but now there isn’t much going on at all. I’ve said good morning to a few people there and chatted with them and they are very nice people with good intentions. (Although one stated he hadn’t voted in an election which surprised me).

http://www.chrisharpercalgary.ca/1/p...y-calgary.html

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Sounds like offer will be turned down by OC

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/cal...405/story.html

Here is the wording of City's offer:



Link to source.

Basically at every turn they've made the city look like indecisive fools. the city has put deadlines in place, they're rejected, the city puts up eviction notices but doesn't enforce it. Now the city offers an olive branch (That I disagree with) and get it thrown in their face.

Basically the mayor is getting played, how long until he's rolling out extension cables and generators. The other cities are rolling up these camps and talking decisive action without using force, its time for Nemshi to grow a set and follow their lead. I get that these people would probably be his target audience if they actually voted, but its time for this stupid misguided squatters camp to go.


While I'm not advocating the use of force, it is time to go in the middle of the night and inspect tents and remove the ones that aren't occupied.

Its time for the Mayor to establish that yes you have the right to protest, but you don't have the right to camp and wreck city property.

[Nuje]

The idea of continuing without power didn’t sit well with all the occupiers. Anthony Hall, a University of Lethbridge professor who recently joined the movement, said they have the right to use electrical devices, such as laptops.
Hall would like to see city hall engage the group in a respectful discussion on the matter.
“We’re human beings,” he said. “He (Bruce) deals with bylaws and animals, and he’s dealing with us like we’re animals. We’re humans. It’s winter in Canada.”

Wow. So a University professor, claims they have rights to use laptops, but somehow ignores the fact that they also have the responsibility to foot the bill for it. I am typing from a plugged in laptop, for which I am paying the electricity.



Winter in Canada? You have the right to be indoors.

[CaptainCrunch]

I went through the charter tonight because I can't sleep (again), nowhere in there is the right to twitter facebook or the pursuit of midget albino porn.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I went through the charter tonight because I can't sleep (again), nowhere in there is the right to twitter facebook or the pursuit of midget albino porn.

Insomniacs everywhere are surprised to hear that.

Cowperson

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I went through the charter tonight because I can't sleep (again), nowhere in there is the right to twitter facebook or the pursuit of midget albino porn.

No, unless doing those things counts as "expression."

The relevant provision is 2(b); but the fact that the protesters rejected what looks like a reasonable offer to accommodate them is going to be a huge problem for them in court. Your 2(b) right is not absolute, and it looks like the city of Vancouver is making a good-faith effort to balance that right appropriately against other considerations.

Calgary is doing the same thing, which ultimately will likely have the same effect--taking away one of the movement's legal arguments. That's another reason it's a shrewd move.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I rolled my eyes at the whole "sit down with them and let them discuss their issues with a city planner" idea too, but holding a meeting with them in city hall, and having some city planner in the room isn't going to break the bank. It's certainly cheaper than all the ticketing, court dates, CPS overtime and every other expense that would come with a harder-line appraoach.

To steal from someone above, it's another way to give them just enough rope to hang themselves.

"We listened to the protesters, allowed them their Charter rights and gave them every opportunity to outline their concerns, including a formal meeting with city representatives, but in the end they were unable to offer any coherent arguments or provide the city with a list of reasonable or even actionable suggestions. And bla bla bla bla."

Any support they do have is going to be gone after that. And there ain't no ugly scenes or even a remotely reasonable complaint that anyone can make that they weren't allowed to express themselves.

That's how I see it too. They can accept the city's deal, they'll have their meetings and nothing will come from it. They gave up their position for a completely symbolic meeting and no physical action had to be taken. Worth the cost in my mind.

If they reject it, then everybody will just be saying that they should have taken the sweetheart deal the city offered when physical steps are taken to remove them. They'll lose their encampment and the city covered their asses by offering far more than they should have before taking the next step. The city gets the protesters out and didn't give up anything beyond what will be an ignored PR blemish.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Nuje

Wow. So a University professor, claims they have rights to use laptops, but somehow ignores the fact that they also have the responsibility to foot the bill for it. I am typing from a plugged in laptop, for which I am paying the electricity.



Winter in Canada? You have the right to be indoors.

The term University Professor when talking about Tony Hall should be used very loosely. In fact I thought he was canned a few years ago from the University, but he may in fact be one of those professors that have tenure or whatever and can't get fired.

He is a well known joke around the university. Teaches useless courses when he does get around to teaching, allows the public to come to his classes filling up seats so paying students can't get in and basically goes around town acting like a drunk jackass 95% of the time.

Tony Hall is an embarrassment not just to the U of L and Lethbridge but pretty much to the human race (like all of these Occupy losers).

[Roughneck]

A Tony Hall rating comment from 2002:

Tony is a little too left wing. If you like to protest, then take his class.

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/Show...d=17183&page=1

[Slava]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Occupie...982/story.html

A really interesting commentary on the "demands" of the OWS crowd. It applies more to the New York situation, but its pertinent when someone here says that the Olympic Plaza people are foolish, but the Wall Street protestors make some good points.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Occupie...982/story.html

A really interesting commentary on the "demands" of the OWS crowd. It applies more to the New York situation, but its pertinent when someone here says that the Olympic Plaza people are foolish, but the Wall Street protestors make some good points.

I've said that the OWS at its heart originally had some real reasons to be out there if they were protesting for harder regulation of the American Banking system to reflect for example what we had here.

But for the most part the Occupy Movement died a few weeks ago and were taken over by the lunatic fringe.

Its funny, but the Occupy Vancouver demands and Occupy Toronto demands which were released on facebook were similar in their stupidity and lack of awareness of economic factors, so to state that the Occupy movements were somehow leaderless combines is kinda stupid when the demands between the American and Canadian occupy movements were remarkably similar.

I would like to note that I was glad to read that subsidized housing was found for the occupyer's in Princess Island Park despite the best efforts of the Olympic Plaza Occupy'ers best efforts to scuttle it.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Slava

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Occupie...982/story.html

A really interesting commentary on the "demands" of the OWS crowd. It applies more to the New York situation, but its pertinent when someone here says that the Olympic Plaza people are foolish, but the Wall Street protestors make some good points.

Really? You found the article interesting? There are better pieces on the Occupy movement out there than this one. The author is stupid to dismiss the movement as Marxist and his rhetoric is little better than the worst of Occupy movements with gems like:

It would be nearer the truth to say that, far from representing "the 99 per cent," the OWS demonstrators represent the one per cent; and those who find them clueless and embarrassing, are the rest of the population.

For religion is the last bastion against the tyranny of worldly power. In the religious we find minds ultimately obedient to God, not Mammon; and the vanity of Mammon will not be assuaged.

Not difficult to figure out his agenda.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Really? You found the article interesting? There are better pieces on the Occupy movement out there than this one. The author is stupid to dismiss the movement as Marxist and his rhetoric is little better than the worst of Occupy movements with gems like:





Not difficult to figure out his agenda.

Well maybe its easy to figure out his agenda, but its an agenda I agree with. I suppose that influences what I would find interesting, but I also found the comparisons of their demands interesting.

[First Lady]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...357/story.html

Herald has added a poll regarding the ongoing request for electricity from OC.

Got a bit of chuckle that it is almost 99% against. Tables have turned.