The Legend of Sam Bennett

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

What? That's crazy!

Where are their $5M wingers on their 3rd line?! Where's their $3M 4th line centre?

How are they winning without spending money on players like James Neal and Troy Brouwer?

...!@#$ing Treliving...

Well let's not let them off the hook completely here.

They are paying a buyout to Scott Darling this year and the next two. They have a cap recapture on Luongo for this year and next too. So they're around 4 million in dead cap this year, and 2.2 next year.

They have a core of Ekblad, Barkov, and Huberdeau who were drafted #1, 2, & 3 overall in the 2014, 2013, and 2011 drafts. So 3 top 3 picks in a 4 year span and 7 years later....they finally look to have a decent team. One real playoff appearance in this time frame.

So really they have spun their wheels trying to figure things out and that's with having some elite talent that's currenly at prime age.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Not sure if serious?

Very Serious. He was doing extremely well until Rachel Notley came along..now look at him...Entirely her fault she increased income tax on high income earners in Alberta. Sam never recovered after that. No, that was a bit ficticious.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I'd be for a Jack Eichel depending on what has to be given up. I wouldn't demolish the roster to add Jack though, otherwise the Flames would just end up as Buffalo East. But there's no doubt in my mind the Flames need 2 reliable scoring lines to win those tight games which they've failed to do so often this season, simply due to lack of scoring. Right now it's "please score every game top line" or "Markstrom needs to be perfect." Absolutely unsustainable way to win.

Personally, I think Treliving is very brave when it comes to trades and he's always looking to "improve" the team. But I feel like he's come out swinging in a lot of trades attempts and has missed. Probably a good thing he whiffed on the Jason Zucker deal though because that would not have aged well.

I’m not sure brave is the word I’d use. Brave is trading away good players because you see a path to getting better. Most of his deals have been ‘buying on credit’.

Hamilton out is the main exception that comes to mind, but that was on credit to begin with...


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[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

What? That's crazy!

Where are their $5M wingers on their 3rd line?! Where's their $3M 4th line centre?

How are they winning without spending money on players like James Neal and Troy Brouwer?

...!@#$ing Treliving...

I know everyone is on the bandwagon right now but they have missed the playoffs 16 times in the last 20 years and been past the first round one time

so much winning

Tampa likely takes them out in round 1 this year IMO. I hear Kucherov is making a miraculous recovery perfectly timed with game one. Same with Stammer

[TheoFleury]

This is so typical and expected. I'm so happy for Sam but at what point does BT face the music? His positives are dwarfed by his negatives. A team with a mid 20s core is regressing by the year. Now it looks like he was plain negligent in Sam's development. Bad linemates, playing out of position and only got the HC right when it was too late. The HC is huge for developing players, and Sam has been mentored and managed by trash his whole nhl career. The whole situation sucks quite honestly, BT should be fired for it. Turned the highest pick in franchise history into a plugger thanks to his roster design and crappy coaching selections. No excuse for this, it's a travesty. If Sam developed in Calgary, it would love been an absolute game changer. Instead he nets a Kris Russel type return after 7 years of butchered development all while getting patted on the back by many. It's an asset he ruined in the first place! He shouldn't get praised for getting an extra 25c on the dollar. Besides, 2 weeks later it looks like 10c on the dollar.

Darryl Sutter was a terrible GM according to most people here. BT voted #2 all time. Darryl Sutter never once pulled a Bennett. Sure, he couldn't draft worth a #### but he never outright ruined his assets either. Never drafted higher than 9. Speaking of that pick, Phaneuf comes closest to ruining an asset but that was injury stuff and he was obviously not the same player at the time of the deal. Im convinced if DS or a quality HC was here with Bennett the whole time instead of getting cute with guys like GG and Peters... and just plain dumb with Ward... we'd be looking at a 50+ point power forward C, a super rare type of player. What a huge, franchise altering clusterf***

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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I’m not sure brave is the word I’d use. Brave is trading away good players because you see a path to getting better. Most of his deals have been ‘buying on credit’.

Hamilton out is the main exception that comes to mind, but that was on credit to begin with...


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I meant more that he’s willing to make a big splash. Although he’s pretty or miss which can be scary. Like opening up a box of chocolates and knowing there could be poop in there. But the idea that Treliving is never satisfied I kind of like. But it stops there for me as all the acquisitions and supposed improvement and this team is still barely a playoff team 7 years later. Not ok.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I meant more that he’s willing to make a big splash. Although he’s pretty or miss which can be scary. Like opening up a box of chocolates and knowing there could be poop in there. But the idea that Treliving is never satisfied I kind of like. But it stops there for me as all the acquisitions and supposed improvement and this team is still barely a playoff team 7 years later. Not ok.

Here's my analogy:

You're poor and fat and your doctor tells you you'll very likely die soon if you don't lose a lot of weight. You can:

A. Improve your diet and exercise.
B. Use your credit card to pay for a miracle surgery. If it works, great...worry about the debt later. If it doesn't, well, you'll be dead and your successors will deal with the debt.

[Steve Bozek]

I don’t see Sam turning into an equivalent of Martin St Louis (and I know he was allowed to walk away with zero return), but these first few games get me worried…

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I meant more that he’s willing to make a big splash. Although he’s pretty or miss which can be scary. Like opening up a box of chocolates and knowing there could be poop in there. But the idea that Treliving is never satisfied I kind of like. But it stops there for me as all the acquisitions and supposed improvement and this team is still barely a playoff team 7 years later. Not ok.

Never satisfied? I am picturing BT walking around looking unsatisfied like when George walked around the office looking irritated so people would think he was busy

[TheSquatch]

In fairness to the Flames Martin St Louis was let to walk during the clutch-and-grab era, and management at the time was up against big strong teams like Anaheim, LA, the Sharks, it was still a big man's league. Now, was it a mistake? Hell yes. Even then I remember thinking it was dumb, and I was glad he went and had a great career. I was worried like hell that they'd do the same with Johnny Gaudreau. They didn't.

If Sam goes on to be a line driving tenacious goal scorer, then wow, the Flames really blew it with him in terms of development, just a horrible black mark against the team. If he goes on to be a useful but inconsitent player, then that's what they traded away and got fair value on. If he falls off a cliff and winds up with "journeyman" status and moves from team to team, then I think that's what a lot of us came to expect of him, watching him here. Time will tell.

But I don't see this as being in the same vein as the Martin St Louis thing at all. That was like, here's a good player we don't want. Just baffling.

[dino7c]

St. Louis passed though waivers and 2 expansion drafts... nobody else wanted him either

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

St. Louis passed though waivers and 2 expansion drafts... nobody else wanted him either

A little while ago when I was moving, I came across my old hockey magazines from that era and there was one piece, I think written by Eric Duhatchek, where he deconstructed the Flames season and pointed out that St. Louis had a strong finish to the season and was a huge bright spot for the Flames future. The forecaster also said he was a player to keep an eye on. Personally, I also recall being really impressed with his energy.

So there were some people who saw St. Louis as a player worth investing in. Did anyone see him becoming as amazing as he did? No, not likely. But he definitely wasn't buy out material at the time.

It is worth mentioning though that when he went to Tampa, he complained to Tortorella that he wasn't getting quality ice-time to produce. Tortorella gave him some pretty tough love by plastering him to the bench and 4th line. St. Louis went scoreless in something like his first 20 games and then out of the blue, Torts put him on the first line and told him to prove it. He made St. Louis want it so bad that once he had the chance, he wasn't going to let anyone take it away. If he stayed in Calgary, I am not sure he would have developed the same way.

The exact same kind of tactic coaches here used on Bennett and people thought it was unfair. He didn't respond nearly as well as St. Louis did.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

A little while ago when I was moving, I came across my old hockey magazines from that era and there was one piece, I think written by Eric Duhatchek, where he deconstructed the Flames season and pointed out that St. Louis had a strong finish to the season and was a huge bright spot for the Flames future. The forecaster also said he was a player to keep an eye on. Personally, I also recall being really impressed with his energy.

So there were some people who saw St. Louis as a player worth investing in. Did anyone see him becoming as amazing as he did? No, not likely. But he definitely wasn't buy out material at the time.

It is worth mentioning though that when he went to Tampa, he complained to Tortorella that he wasn't getting quality ice-time to produce. Tortorella gave him some pretty tough love by plastering him to the bench and 4th line. St. Louis went scoreless in something like his first 20 games and then out of the blue, Torts put him on the first line and told him to prove it. He made St. Louis want it so bad that once he had the chance, he wasn't going to let anyone take it away. If he stayed in Calgary, I am not sure he would have developed the same way.

The exact same kind of tactic coaches here used on Bennett and people thought it was unfair. He didn't respond nearly as well as St. Louis did.

I have only taken the time to call the Flames management twice. Once with regard to Martin St. Louis, and once with regard to Conroy, after the 2004
SC loss. In April, 2000, I called Ron Bremner (Flames CEO) and said, "Whatever you do, make sure you definitely keep Martin St. Louis". I explained that he was exciting to watch, and I was impressed with his speed and good hockey sense. Ron responded responded with "Isn't he great" and sent me a Flames clock (I call it my Martin St. Louis clock). A short time later, a newly appointed GM, Craig Button, decided not to renew Martin's contract option and he subsequently signed with Tampa Bay Lightening. I recall telling my brother-in-law at the time, who spent his winters near Tampa Bay, to keep an eye on a player called Martin St. Louis. The rest is history, part of which was Martin's goal in overtime of Game 6 of the 2004 SC final, which denied us the SC.

As for Conroy, I expressed my opinion that we should do whatever we had to to keep him, immediately after the 2004 season, I thought he was indispensable in the continuing success of the team. The team's character was essentially destroyed, when they let guys like Conroy, Nieminem (spelling?) and Commodore go.

As far as Bennett is concerned, I think it is far too soon to see what he is capable of in the long run. I sure hope I am wrong, but I believe he is presently playing far above what his long term stats will show.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by dino7c

St. Louis passed though waivers and 2 expansion drafts... nobody else wanted him either

But the Flames had the inside track on assessing his potential and seeing whether he could be a keeper...... they blew it, and it came back to kill them in 2004.

[monkeyman]

The Flames lost Jean-Sebastien Giguere and St.Louis both right after the transition from Coates to Button. I believe Coates believed in both, Button had different ideas.
Man, looking back, with Button at the helm, we lost St. Louis, Marc Savard, and Jean-Sebastien Giguere, all for nothing.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Every good prospect entering their prime that the Flames trade becomes the best player in the league.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Lazar + BOS 1st?



Bennett 10th EV TOI last year (11th if you include Buddy Robinson). He was on the 4th line last year, too.

His most common linemates last year were Jankowski and Reider, and then, fractionally less, Lucic and Ryan. Third most was his Dube and Lucic combo.

If you want to call that 4th line OK. I considered his line the 3rd generally.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

But the Flames had the inside track on assessing his potential and seeing whether he could be a keeper...... they blew it, and it came back to kill them in 2004.

agreed... seeing a name on a waiver wire is one thing.

Seeing him everyday, at games, practice, workouts, team meetings isn't the same thing...

did other teams blow it? Sure, but Calgary stands at the very top of that list and outdistance everyone else by a significant margin imo

[ComixZone]

Another assist to open tonight. Breaks up a play defensively and sends Duclair the other direction for a goal.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Another assist to open tonight

Looking forward to New Era's analysis of how it's not a high-end play

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Breaks up a play defensively and sends Duclair the other direction for a goal.

Yup. On the PK, and throws a ~90 foot stretch pass on Duclair's tape as Duclair exits the box.

[Ragnar]

Up to 24 points now...

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...67#post7720267

...YIKES