[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Volas

there's far more that goes into a team's culture.

if preaching it was so foolproof, it's a wonder why teams with apparently bad dressing rooms like toronto and san jose haven't figured it out.

things can go south between a player and their team for many reasons. an "always given, never earned" mantra doesn't preclude that.

Sven, is that you? Or is this the ultimate apologist post?

[Volas]

it's a wonder with posts like that why this thread was closed in the first place.

lots of childish anger.

[Darkwater]

Volas tries, and fails, at getting a bad reaction from the mods. He's boring.

[d_phaneuf]

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/04...-expectations/

The Flames knew they had to trade Baertschi. He was on an expiring contract and the belief was he was not coming back, a notion that becomes pretty obvious in the first five minutes you talk to him.

What the Flames did not want to do is trade Baertschi to the Canucks.

The Canucks had been trying to get the deal done early in the day, offering a second rounder. The Flames then spent hours trying to get themselves a better offer.

The called the Canucks with three minutes to go before the deadline to make the deal.

One thing the Canucks had going for them, and why they were willing to offer the second rounder, is that they know Baertschi better than just about any team outside Calgary.

[FAN]

I think I remember reading that it was the Flames that called up the Canucks and not the other way around. I don't think the Flames were at all concerned about trading Baertschi to the Canucks. It was about getting the best possible return and the Canucks offered it.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by FAN

I think I remember reading that it was the Flames that called up the Canucks and not the other way around. I don't think the Flames were at all concerned about trading Baertschi to the Canucks. It was about getting the best possible return and the Canucks offered it.

All things being equal they would have preferred to trade him elsewhere, but the Canucks had the best offer.

Also seems like pretty normal trading procedure. Get an offer than see if others will beat it to drive the price up. Not really sure its a story other than confirm the Canucks had the best offer for him.

[Robo]

sooo any word on how his first game with the canucks went?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Volas

there's far more that goes into a team's culture.

if preaching it was so foolproof, it's a wonder why teams with apparently bad dressing rooms like toronto and san jose haven't figured it out.

things can go south between a player and their team for many reasons. an "always given, never earned" mantra doesn't preclude that.

Ummm...because you need the right type of players/personalities in that room?

Sven was not the right player and certainly not the right personality for such a mantra.

Given....never earned is the opposite of what Hartely has created in Calgary.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

All things being equal they would have preferred to trade him elsewhere, but the Canucks had the best offer.

Also seems like pretty normal trading procedure. Get an offer than see if others will beat it to drive the price up. Not really sure its a story other than confirm the Canucks had the best offer for him.

ya to me it just showed basically that the Flames were in a tough spot, got the best deal they possibly could because if he holds out as an RFA in the summer they dont get close to a 2nd

[CgyFlamesftw]

Starting to think young players shouldn't speak wrong about flames management or development and try to improve their game. Erixon dipped and now will never be an NHL 'er and Sven looks like he could be heading in same direction. We curse all those who leave

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Volas

there's far more that goes into a team's culture.

if preaching it was so foolproof, it's a wonder why teams with apparently bad dressing rooms like toronto and san jose haven't figured it out.

things can go south between a player and their team for many reasons. an "always given, never earned" mantra doesn't preclude that.

"Preaching" it is easy. Following that philosophy, consistently and effectively implementing it, are different things and not nearly so easy.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Volas

bingo implied that an "always earned, never given" culture could not possibly become a toxic situation for a player.

it was absolutely posted to trash the player.

Pretty obvious to me that I was taking a shot at the Province writer who uttered the word toxic and not the player.

I've always hated the player getting a free ride and the coach getting blamed when things don't work out.

I hated it when Dustin Boyd was the topic.
I hated it when Rico Fata was the topic.
I hated it when Marc Savard was the topic
I hated it when Sven Baertschi was the topic

Just play well and earn it. Simple recipe for others.

I hoped the guy would succeed in Calgary, but his own quotes about his mental makeup made me thing it was doubtful.

I honestly didn't know the topic was locked, and I hummed and hawed about posting the Province article for fear that we'd get 20 more pages of drivel (which we did), but felt it was an update and who was I to sit on it.

Thanks for the drive by though.

[Enoch Root]

what you wrote...

Originally Posted by Volas

wasn't this thread locked and then bumped by bingo after a pretty harmless article about baerstchi?

the thread was literally re-opened to trash the player.

here is the actual post: Bingo simply posting an article on the subject where the author called the situation toxic:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sounds like never given always earned is "toxic"
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...medium=twitter

But you wouldn't let it go, you were determined to troll along...

Originally Posted by Volas

bingo implied that an "always earned, never given" culture could not possibly become a toxic situation for a player.

it was absolutely posted to trash the player.

No, he never said anything like that.

And you conveniently ignored Bing's next post on the subject:

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm tired of the conversation too guys ... thought long and hard about it but saw the article and felt it was a true update.

Didn't want to be the guy that just sat on it.

Honestly didn't know it was locked.

Sorry guys!

And for good measure, you keep it coming by insulting the entire thread:

Originally Posted by Volas

it's a wonder with posts like that why this thread was closed in the first place.

lots of childish anger.

So far you have:

1) attacked the owner of the site
2) attacked the fanbase
3) told a moderator how to do his job

How about you crawl back to CDC now

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by CgyFlamesftw

Starting to think young players shouldn't speak wrong about flames management or development and try to improve their game. Erixon dipped and now will never be an NHL 'er and Sven looks like he could be heading in same direction. We curse all those who leave

I'm thinking they disparage the team because they aren't making the cut when they think they are good enough and they are not.

A player can serve many roles. Johnny's is nearly 100% point production, if he became a 15 point producer he wouldn't be serving his role. Sven's was also as a point producer, but he didn't bring offense so he complained. The unworthiness preceded the complaining in both cases. Erixon was right too, we wouldn't play him, because he wasn't able to fulfill a role adequately.

Also, I legitimately thought his name was Tom, thanks CP

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/04...-expectations/

Man, he sounds like a spoiled brat.

Sven, do you think you could have got your confidence ever in Calgary?
“At times, the expectations, didn’t seem I could reach them.”
What kind of expectations?
“What I thought, there were things they wanted me to do, they wanted me to play a different game than what I’ve played before, which is why I was drafted high.
“It gets tougher to get your game back on track. When you can’t reach those expectations, as a player, you might lose some confidence.
“It wasn’t a good fit for a lot of reasons.”
Hartley, Burke are good places to start.


We have young guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Jooris, Grandlund, Brodie, Bouma, and Ferland working their tales off to be in the line up every night. And then you have Baertschi complaining that expectations were too high and the style of game the Flames played didn't work for him. I'm glad he is gone from the Flames organization.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Man, he sounds like a spoiled brat.

Sven, do you think you could have got your confidence ever in Calgary?
“At times, the expectations, didn’t seem I could reach them.”
What kind of expectations?
“What I thought, there were things they wanted me to do, they wanted me to play a different game than what I’ve played before, which is why I was drafted high.
“It gets tougher to get your game back on track. When you can’t reach those expectations, as a player, you might lose some confidence.
“It wasn’t a good fit for a lot of reasons.”
Hartley, Burke are good places to start.


We have young guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Jooris, Grandlund, Brodie, Bouma, and Ferland working their tales off to be in the line up every night. And then you have Baertschi complaining that expectations were too high and the style of game the Flames played didn't work for him. I'm glad he is gone from the Flames organization.

Not sure you needed to say he sounds like a spoiled brat, but your last paragraph is bang on.

[transplant99]

Yeah im not sure you could say he is a "spoiled brat" per se, but without question there is some pretty obvious entitlement issues.

"They wanted me to play a different way than I wanted too because it was too hard" is basically what he is saying.

yeah? Well tough Sven......i hate that kind of attitude from athletes in team sports...its about so much more than one guy and his fragile psyche.

[Bingo]

The NHL is no longer a play one zone and nevermind attention to detail in your own zone league.

the Canucks will be all over him for the same things.

part of the problem in Calgary in the previous era was the star players wouldn't do the detail work, and because of that they couldn't win

Datsyuk and Zetterberg, Yzerman before them, and countless others have set the bar and you can't just pick and choose where you put your work boots on.

A guy like Gaudreau will never win a Selke but the Flames have worked with him on coverage. His scoring bought him time to work on all aspects of his game and because of that he's flourishing.

The funny thing about Baertschi is that he was starting to get it and he may just get it now. But if he does it will be that stuff he doesn't like from his time in Calgary that is giving him the rope to get more confident offensively.

[HelloHockeyFans]

It was only one game, but Baertschi of the Vancouver Canucks yesterday looked a lot like Sven Baertschi of the Calgary Flames. Some good chances in the offensive zone and improved albeit still inconsistent play defensively in all zones. Also took a couple penalties which happened because of his tendency to sometimes be a little lazy on the back check.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The NHL is no longer a play one zone and nevermind attention to detail in your own zone league.

the Canucks will be all over him for the same things.

part of the problem in Calgary in the previous era was the star players wouldn't do the detail work, and because of that they couldn't win

Datsyuk and Zetterberg, Yzerman before them, and countless others have set the bar and you can't just pick and choose where you put your work boots on.

A guy like Gaudreau will never win a Selke but the Flames have worked with him on coverage. His scoring bought him time to work on all aspects of his game and because of that he's flourishing.

The funny thing about Baertschi is that he was starting to get it and he may just get it now. But if he does it will be that stuff he doesn't like from his time in Calgary that is giving him the rope to get more confident offensively.

All that and...
He's just not good enough an offensive player to be deficient in other areas. The observations last night from some Canuck fans were bang on.
- He wasn't effective on the 3rd line because he's not a good enough two-way player, and not physical
- He needs to play on a scoring line, but didn't show enough to warrant graduating to the top 6

This is why the Flames were trying to round out his game. He's just not good enough to be an offense-only player. He risks turning into a tweener if he is unable to add some other dimensions to his game.