Godless Apostate

[Matata]

I've gone a little bit into simulation theory and would recommend the joe rogan podcasts on it.

I think one of the more interesting reasons for this being a simulation is the era in which we live, which has a really unique mix of being an exciting, rapidly changing time where there's a lot of safety and comfort, but there's still a lot of wildness in the world. If we exist in a simulation, it's probably because the real world is a pretty boring place, so you want to go back to an era where things were really exciting, but also has the tech to allow for long, healthy lives. Sure you could go back to the 1500s, but then end up always dying before you're even 2 years old. Why do that when you can be born after 1950 and experience the emergence of the internet, amazing leaps in progress from decade to decade and watch the beginning of God-King Trumps 10,000 year reign.

[Ozy_Flame]

It's funny. I was raised in the Catholic faith, went agnostic in my early adult days, full aetheist for a few years, and now I have settled on simulation theory as my most likely scenario. I have no evidence for this at all other than a hunch that we are put here as either a "testing ground" for future activities outside the simulation, or we are here for entertainment purpose as human avatars in a game of "The Sims", whereby time in the simulation does not match the real world (e.g. the simulation only takes about 10 earth standard minutes). When we die, we take the helmet off, and we compare high scores.

The universe is part of the simulation, and as people get better at the game, we are able to do more things with technology, social constructs, and exploration into new worlds. New high scores will be given. And the world keeps patching itself and correcting its own bugs - black holes and supernovas add balance and corrections.

Sounds crazy - I know. But if nothing else, it really just provides comfort for dealing with loved ones passing, and knowing that I will "see them later". They'll wake up and they'll take their helmet off, and we're still in the chair. It may not even be the same person as our human avatars, but I like to think a person's personality and soul is what lives on through this simulation.

Life is short, time is fleeting, and we'll see our friends again. It just won't be at St. Peter's Gates, unless that's "Stage 2" of the simulation - dealing with the "Afterlife". Hopefully not, on to bigger and better things

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. It’s universally accepted by all Christians that God impregnated Mary, and Jesus was his son. Very much in the same fashion that Hercules was the son of Zeus, and similar to how the Nephilim were the offspring of women and gods.

It is sufficient to reject Christianity on it’s actual merits without resorting to ridicule.

Big difference is, does anyone believe Hercules or Zeus are real?

I don't consider it ridiculing, I consider it pointing out how ridiculous it is to deny logic and accept fantasy is real. I guess I can see how some might think that is ridiculing, but if you tried to tell an anti-vaxxer that they should have their kids vaccinated would that be ridiculing? Is showing a flat earther a picture of the earth from space ridiculing?

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. It’s universally accepted by all Christians that God impregnated Mary, and Jesus was his son. Very much in the same fashion that Hercules was the son of Zeus, and similar to how the Nephilim were the offspring of women and gods.

It just so happens that huge numbers of people have for thousands of years and continue to believe in supernatural beings who interacted with the natural world. It’s not a matter of intelligence nor maturity—it’s a conviction about how the world works, and unless you have been immersed in this worldview I would imagine it is difficult to grasp. But it doesn’t really enhance your own view to cast aspersions on the beliefs of others, or to manufacture straw-men out of their beliefs. It is sufficient to reject Christianity on it’s actual merits without resorting to ridicule.

i agree with the premise of this post(let people believe what they want without judging them), but at the same time...its not really a strawman? knowing how biology and procreation works, the idea is that god literally impregnated a woman is frankly ridiculous and worthy of ridicule, regardless of how many people have been indoctrinated into believing it, no?

[CliffFletcher]

People realize much of religion is metaphor, right? And that there's probably a good reason why every society in the history of humankind have employed many of the same metaphors?

You don't have to believe these myths are literally true, or subscribe to religion itself, to treat it as a subject worthy of serious consideration.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People realize much of religion is metaphor, right? And that there's probably a good reason why every society in the history of humankind have employed many of the same metaphors?
.

God...metaphor or real?, Jesus...metaphor or real?, Immaculate conception...metaphor or real?

[troutman]

Joseph Campbell:

“Mythology is not a lie, mythology is poetry, it is metaphorical. It has been well said that mythology is the penultimate truth–penultimate because the ultimate cannot be put into words. It is beyond words. Beyond images, beyond that bounding rim of the Buddhist Wheel of Becoming. Mythology pitches the mind beyond that rim, to what can be known but not told.”

“All religions are true but none are literal.”

“Myth is much more important and true than history. History is just journalism and you know how reliable that is.”

“Half the people in the world think that the metaphors of their religious traditions, for example, are facts. And the other half contends that they are not facts at all. As a result we have people who consider themselves believers because they accept metaphors as facts, and we have others who classify themselves as atheists because they think religious metaphors are lies.”

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Regulator75

Not going to argue with a comic, but to me religion has always been a way for the powerful to maintain control over the weak. An autocracy with a cooler back story.

[Matata]

I think religion is a collection of stories that contain valuable knowledge and moral guidance that gets passed on through storytelling. Over the millenia, these tales become refined through the telling and the religions that collect the most valuable and morally resonant stories are the religions that rise to dominance. As religions gain hold over the hearts and minds of people, the ruling class then starts working to co-opt the message to reinforce their dominance. So major religions tend to end up being golden nuggets scattered throughout mountains of horse poop.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Not going to argue with a comic, but to me religion has always been a way for the powerful to maintain control over the weak. An autocracy with a cooler back story.

About five thousand years ago, a bunch of religious and political hustlers got together to figure out how they could control people and keep them in line. They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so these guys announced that God— God personally—had given one of them a list of Ten Commandments that he wanted everyone to follow. They claimed the whole thing took place on a mountaintop, when no one else was around.

- George Carlin

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by stone hands

i agree with the premise of this post(let people believe what they want without judging them), but at the same time...its not really a strawman? knowing how biology and procreation works, the idea is that god literally impregnated a woman is frankly ridiculous and worthy of ridicule, regardless of how many people have been indoctrinated into believing it, no?

I agree. Ridicule the ideas that religion specifically promotes, but then you also must counter re-expressions of many of these ideas that have developed over time to find compatibility in the modern world. The straw man to which I was referring was that concocted by DuffMan, which DOES NOT actually reflect Christian doctrine—at least not in the sense that Christians believe it and teach it.

There are more sophisticated ways by which Christians have bypassed and argued around more primitive expressions of the faith, such as the virgin birth. In other words, there are Christians (I was one such for a long time) who do not believe that God magically impregnated the virgin Mary, but rather hold to this is part of a larger expression of Christ's being and his work of salvation—it's part of the myth. Making juvenile jabs about " God impregnat[ing] a virgin, from space, with himself" does not help to move the conversation about God, religion, or modern theological scaffolding in Christianity forward.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Big difference is, does anyone believe Hercules or Zeus are real?

I don't consider it ridiculing, I consider it pointing out how ridiculous it is to deny logic and accept fantasy is real...

You are asserting your position as the "logical" one by rejecting all forms of religion as "ridiculous" and "fantasy." It's extremely arrogant, callous, and fails to grapple with the numerous and varied ways in which religions continue to express themselves and find compatibility in the modern world. This is just ignorant carelessness on your part.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

God...metaphor or real?, Jesus...metaphor or real?, Immaculate conception...metaphor or real?

What if these are all metaphors?

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I agree. Ridicule the ideas that religion specifically promotes. The straw man to which I was referring was that concocted by DuffMan, which DOES NOT actually reflect Christian doctrine—at least not in the sense that Christians believe it and teach it.

There are more sophisticated ways by which Christians have bypassed and argued around more primitive expressions of the faith, such as the virgin birth. In other words, there are Christians (I was one such for a long time) who do not believe that God magically impregnated the virgin Mary, but rather hold to this is part of a larger expression of Christ's being and his work of salvation—it's part of the myth. Making juvenile jabs about " God impregnat[ing] a virgin, from space, with himself" does not help to move the conversation about God, religion, or modern theological scaffolding in Christianity forward.

interesting. my genuine followup question to this is(and please correct me if I'm mistaken, I know very little about the meat and potatoes of christianity outside of what can be absorbed via osmosis from living in a western nation and am curious) - it's my understanding the core belief of christianity is that jesus was quite literally the son of god, his teachings and belief that he died for everyone else's sins is predicated that he was a divine being in a human body whos goal was to tell humans the rules of how to live virtuously(paraphrasing). if he wasn't immaculately conceived, and just a regular guy...doesnt that kind of make the entire thing moot as a religious activity?

[Wormius]

Growing up in a fairly non-religious household, the concept or subject of a god never surfaced.




So, the reason to believe in a god or make the concept part of your life is what? Does it just boil down to a "this must have come from somewhere" problem?

[peter12]

More like, humans are extremely strange human beings - we have found nothing even close to us in the entire galaxy so far - and we struggle to explain ourselves in more than parts. Religion is an attempt to find what that whole of us may or may not be. Theological and philosophical discussions share this one thing in common.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by stone hands

interesting. my genuine followup question to this is(and please correct me if I'm mistaken, I know very little about the meat and potatoes of christianity outside of what can be absorbed via osmosis from living in a western nation and am curious) - it's my understanding the core belief of christianity is that jesus was quite literally the son of god, his teachings and belief that he died for everyone else's sins is predicated that he was a divine being in a human body whos goal was to tell humans the rules of how to live virtuously(paraphrasing). if he wasn't immaculately conceived, and just a regular guy...doesnt that kind of make the entire thing moot as a religious activity?

Buddhism seems to progress fine following the teachings of a converted one-percenter. I don't think straying from the literal requirements renders the whole thing moot, a lot of people don't take the Bible literally and still gain positives from it.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by nik-

Buddhism seems to progress fine following the teachings of a converted one-percenter. I don't think straying from the literal requirements renders the whole thing moot, a lot of people don't take the Bible literally and still gain positives from it.

absolutely there are positive messages and teachings that can be gleaned from any religion, they wouldn't have survived thousands of years otherwise

i guess my point is as a non-believer looking for some insight, the entire point of christianity is that jesus knows gods will because he is the son(or holy ghost or whatever semantics needed, tl;dr he has it from first hand account from the big man) of god. if he's not any of those things...then whats the point of believing anything he says? why put 100% conviction in following his teachings so you can go to heaven when you can deduce that based on the laws of physics he was born from a human father and a human mother, contradicting his origin story and raison-d'etre?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Matata

I think religion is a collection of stories that contain valuable knowledge and moral guidance that gets passed on through storytelling. Over the millenia, these tales become refined through the telling and the religions that collect the most valuable and morally resonant stories are the religions that rise to dominance. As religions gain hold over the hearts and minds of people, the ruling class then starts working to co-opt the message to reinforce their dominance. So major religions tend to end up being golden nuggets scattered throughout mountains of horse poop.

Disagree with the bolded. I'm sure there are a ton of great religions that have been wiped out because other religion just had more people and/or more firepower than they do.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You are asserting your position as the "logical" one by rejecting all forms of religion as "ridiculous" and "fantasy." It's extremely arrogant, callous, and fails to grapple with the numerous and varied ways in which religions continue to express themselves and find compatibility in the modern world. This is just ignorant carelessness on your part.

Well I wouldn't say all forms of religion as I'm not familiar with all forms, but if any can bring forth anything resembling a logical argument of proof then I am all ears.
So far I've only heard things such as whole religions born from a guy huffing rocks in a bag in a forest by himself who God decides to visit.

Or, a 700 year old man builds a boat, without power tools, big enough for 2 of every animal on Earth, and then stocks it with animals like penguins, polar bears, kangaroos and millions of insects to float around 30 days. I always like to ask Christians what the carnivores ate, and the popular answer is god made the not hungry, lol.

My biggest problem is telling children these bs stories and telling them it is true because their loving God committed genocide on all of mankind because he was angry because they were sinning.

sorry if this sounds arrogant or callous, but people actually believe this stuff and it makes me sad