Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Jiri and Flash are both assuming that Compher, or anyone else who gets injured playing professional hockey, would want hitting removed without actually considering the opinions of the people on who's behalf they are arguing.

No I'm not making those assumptions. Where have assumed that players would want hitting removed?

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Some would call this progress...

· No one dies at the end of an athletic contest? ... soft.
· Anaesthetics for surgical procedures? ... soft.
· Dentistry? ... soft.
· Labour laws and unions? ... soft.
· Flight simulators? ... soft.
· Workers compensation? ... soft.
· Paid holidays? ... soft.
· Helmets? ... soft.
· Visors? ... so soft.

...

Lol how did you get to flight simulators hahaha

Curing disease?... soft
Carrying your baby in a papoose?... soft
Auto assist parrallel parking?... soft
Stain resistant pants?... soft
Banning mean words?... soft

What an amazing post

[Flash Walken]

Once upon a time hockey players resisted wearing helmets. Goalies resisted wearing masks.

Even after having safety equipment, many players still refused. This same thing then happened a generation later with visors.

We now look upon players like Craig MacTavish, who flaunted rules of safety in favour of...I don't know, with laughs and derision and comments about head trauma of not wearing a helmet being linked to poor decision making.

Everyone wears a visor now. There is still physicality, there is still fighting, there is still violence, but guys aren't losing their eyes anymore. Except for when they somehow decide to not wear them in warmup and then sometimes they end up like scarface Taylor Hall.

Leaving things up to them on their own health and safety is dumb.

[Gaskal]

Nothing about that hit was even 'borderline'.

It was the exact same hit thrown on Soderberg later on. Only difference being that Soderberg actually didn't duck his head and took it on the shoulder.

The only reason we are dragging Sam's hit through this derailment at all is because once again, Compher ducked his head and Soderberg did not. The responsibility of injury is not on Sam at all.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Once upon a time hockey players resisted wearing helmets. Goalies resisted wearing masks.

Even after having safety equipment, many players still refused. This same thing then happened a generation later with visors.

We now look upon players like Craig MacTavish, who flaunted rules of safety in favour of...I don't know, with laughs and derision and comments about head trauma of not wearing a helmet being linked to poor decision making.

Everyone wears a visor now. There is still physicality, there is still fighting, there is still violence, but guys aren't losing their eyes anymore. Except for when they somehow decide to not wear them in warmup and then sometimes they end up like scarface Taylor Hall.

Leaving things up to them on their own health and safety is dumb.

Yeah but there’s a difference between adding/modifying a piece of equipment and fundamentally changing the rules of the game.

If someone designed a concussion-proof helmet, but some players refused to wear it because it looked silly, this line of thinking would apply more.

To me it’s closer the debate between goalie gear and net size. Some people want a bigger net and to stop dicking with goalie gear. To me, changing the size of the net fundamentally changes the game as far as what shooters are shooting at and goalie positioning.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

These straw man retorts are not remotely helpful. The fact of the matter is that there are fans who love the game, but are sickened by the physical and psychological toll that is exacted by an aspect of the game. Telling us to "go watch basketball" merely signals to me that you are uninterested in weighing other opinions in this discussion.

I look forward to you browbeating everyone else in this thread exhibiting this behaviour. Yes, that includes me. And it includes you.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Once upon a time hockey players resisted wearing helmets. Goalies resisted wearing masks.

Even after having safety equipment, many players still refused. This same thing then happened a generation later with visors.

We now look upon players like Craig MacTavish, who flaunted rules of safety in favour of...I don't know, with laughs and derision and comments about head trauma of not wearing a helmet being linked to poor decision making.

Everyone wears a visor now. There is still physicality, there is still fighting, there is still violence, but guys aren't losing their eyes anymore. Except for when they somehow decide to not wear them in warmup and then sometimes they end up like scarface Taylor Hall.

Leaving things up to them on their own health and safety is dumb.

People can get concussions from tripping going down the stairs or from banging their head off an open cupboard door.

Should we ban bending down in the kitchen?

Should we ban multilevel buildings?

At what point are you taking away someones choice to do something stupid if they want to, especially now that players entering the league are aware of the risks. We know concussions can be really really bad for your long term health but yet there will always be people willing to pay to watch and there will always be advertisers willing to pay to advertise to those people.

In this day and age everyone is trying to do whats best for everyone else without knowing what their best interests truly are.

maybe earning $60 million while potentially losing 5-25 years off your lifetime because of concussions is still positive for most players as they can set their families up for success.

Either way it it shouldn't be our decision to make. If we want to continue watching the game then watch the game, if you don't then just watch something less violent.

But removing hitting will ruin hockey for a LOT of fans, the vast majority in fact.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Lol how did you get to flight simulators hahaha...

I imagine that in a time before the invention of flight simulators people learned how to fly airplanes and land them by actually flying and landing ... and crashing.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I look forward to you browbeating everyone else in this thread exhibiting this behaviour. Yes, that includes me. And it includes you.

It's going both ways here. I just read the last 4 pages and there's enough browbeating to go around on both sides.

I still think people are missing the point. And that point is should the game evolve away from these types of hits? It's a legitimate question and discussion.

I'm 110% on the fence. Partly because I don't like seeing guys have their careers ended a la Paul Kariya, and partly because I think it's going to go that way anyway.

I also love a good dust up, and big, game changing Corey Sarich hits.

So I am seeing both sides. There seems to be a few people here that can't.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I imagine that in a time before the invention of flight simulators people learned how to fly airplanes and land them by actually flying and landing ... and crashing.

And those were some damn tough ol boys werent they!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

People can get concussions from tripping going down the stairs or from banging their head off an open cupboard door.

Should we ban bending down in the kitchen?

Should we ban multilevel buildings?

At what point are you taking away someones choice to do something stupid if they want to, especially now that players entering the league are aware of the risks. We know concussions can be really really bad for your long term health but yet there will always be people willing to pay to watch and there will always be advertisers willing to pay to advertise to those people.

In this day and age everyone is trying to do whats best for everyone else without knowing what their best interests truly are.

maybe earning $60 million while potentially losing 5-25 years off your lifetime because of concussions is still positive for most players as they can set their families up for success.

Either way it it shouldn't be our decision to make. If we want to continue watching the game then watch the game, if you don't then just watch something less violent.

But removing hitting will ruin hockey for a LOT of fans, the vast majority in fact.

Again, I'm not an advocate of removing hitting. But you are making a lot of hyberbolic, silly arguments.

No, we shouldn't ban bending over or other mundane things. But we do ban lots of things that people might want to do but that are deemed too dangerous.

And the amount of adult hockey players making millions is pretty miniscule compared to the number of players overall.

Whose decision should it be? Probably not the players, who are fairly uneducated as a group, have vested interests depending on the type of player they are, would probably do steroids if it helped their game and was allowed, and tend to be led by the nose by others (agents, the PA, peer pressure).

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Again, I'm not an advocate of removing hitting. But you are making a lot of hyberbolic, silly arguments.

No, we shouldn't ban bending over or other mundane things. But we do ban lots of things that people might want to do but that are deemed too dangerous.

And the amount of adult hockey players making millions is pretty miniscule compared to the number of players overall.

Whose decision should it be? Probably not the players, who are fairly uneducated as a group, have vested interests depending on the type of player they are, would probably do steroids if it helped their game and was allowed, and tend to be led by the nose by others (agents, the PA, peer pressure).

If I can't make Hyperbolic, silly arguments on the internet then what is the point of it?

But seriously, as a society, we have to come to a point where we stop protecting people from themselves.

Removing the type of hit that sam bennett made, means we are removing every hit from hockey because that was an absolute textbook bodycheck.

if you can't hit like that then you have changed the fabric of the game, it is not related to visors, helmets, or head shots, those all make sense.

This is overreaction from a small vocal minority (like so often happens in society today) because compher got injured.

[SeanCharles]

Ok after reading through all this I have a couple thoughts:

- The Bennett hit is not a type of hit that needs to be removed from the game. I watched it over and over and his initial point of contact was Comphers shoulder. The hit wasn't what I would consider late by any means.

- It's unfortunate Compher got hurt but that is part of the game. There will be injuries and reducing those injuries is important so long as it doesn't destroy the fabric of the game.

- I read one post saying parents won't enroll their kids in hockey much like football. For starters the average career length for footballers is like 4-5years. Hockey players is much longer I can assure you. Both sports have their dangers but hockey isn't anywhere close to where football is on the spectrum.

- Staged fighting and hits to the head shouldn't be a part of the game, nor should charging. But you need a line when determining clean vs illegal. I think things are going in the right direction in the NHL in regards to this and don't really see any holes in the system outside of human error in reffing.

- The league is as safe as it's ever been but it is still a contact sport. We can't be shocked or outraged when players get hurt inadvertently. We can debate but I feel like this debate has gotten a little out of hand. If the player never got hurt we would still be talking about how that hit changed the momentum in the game and was huge in the ensuing comeback.

- Even though it was a Bennett hit, it's somewhat hilarious to have the Bennett thread derailed to a certain extent.

Also GFG tonight!

[Zulu29]

I liked the hit, but don’t like the fact that Compher got a concussion out of it. Don’t know what Bennett could have done differently.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Ok after reading through all this I have a couple thoughts:

- The Bennett hit is not a type of hit that needs to be removed from the game. I watched it over and over and his initial point of contact was Comphers shoulder. The hit wasn't what I would consider late by any means.

- It's unfortunate Compher got hurt but that is part of the game. There will be injuries and reducing those injuries is important so long as it doesn't destroy the fabric of the game.

- I read one post saying parents won't enroll their kids in hockey much like football. For starters the average career length for footballers is like 4-5years. Hockey players is much longer I can assure you. Both sports have their dangers but hockey isn't anywhere close to where football is on the spectrum.

- Staged fighting and hits to the head shouldn't be a part of the game, nor should charging. But you need a line when determining clean vs illegal. I think things are going in the right direction in the NHL in regards to this and don't really see any holes in the system outside of human error in reffing.

- The league is as safe as it's ever been but it is still a contact sport. We can't be shocked or outraged when players get hurt inadvertently. We can debate but I feel like this debate has gotten a little out of hand. If the player never got hurt we would still be talking about how that hit changed the momentum in the game and was huge in the ensuing comeback.

- Even though it was a Bennett hit, it's somewhat hilarious to have the Bennett thread derailed to a certain extent.

Also GFG tonight!

This si the most logical post on here

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

He won the Flames hardest shot contest using a wooden stick, and told kids there was no need to ask their parents to spend $300+ on a stick to shoot hard. I will forever like that about Aucoin.

"Hey parents, thirty dolllllllars" - Holds the wood stick up to thousands of cheering parents.

That was a great moment.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I liked the hit, but don’t like the fact that Compher got a concussion out of it. Don’t know what Bennett could have done differently.

There is nothing Bennett should have done differently. He did what he was supposed to do, hit to intimidate , wear down the opposing player and change the momentum of the game. It was perfect and textbook.

[DJones]

I feel like I'm on tumblr/reddit more and more on this site haha

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

The Great Softening of Society continues...

First it was antibiotics. Then seat belts. What's next? Anesthesia?

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by the2bears

First it was antibiotics. Then seat belts. What's next? Anesthesia?

Dial up