2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Flames have those guys in their system, they just haven't been given a chance and are further back in their development.

Guys like Pelletier, Corronato, and Zary would all have been given far more playing time on other teams. We don't even know what we have in Phillips. If the Flames had kept all of their picks in 2018, would the players they drafted have even gotten a chance to play?

Hard to see how Corronato could have played much more - he didn’t sign a contract until March 26. Pelletier played 100 games in the AHL, Zary has played about 130. It’s not uncommon for players drafted in their range to spend 1-2 seasons in the minors.

Here are the NHL games played by guys drafted around Zary in his class:

Lapierre 6
Foerster 8
Zary 0
Barron 46
Neighbours 52

And keep in mind Zary had some serious injury issues that slowed his development. Mavrik Bourque (drafted 6 places after Zary) is ranked as the Stars’ 2nd best prospect, and he’s played 0 NHL games.

NHL games by the guys drafted around Pelletier:

Tomassino 107
McMichael 75
Pelletier 25
Foote 19
Suzuki 0

Doesn’t seem egregiously out of line.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Hard to see how Corronato could have played much more - he didn’t sign a contract until March 26. Pelletier played 100 games in the AHL, Zary has played about 130. It’s not uncommon for players drafted in their range to spend 1-2 seasons in the minors.

Here are the NHL games played by guys drafted around Zary in his class:

Lapierre 6
Foerster 8
Zary 0
Barron 46
Neighbours 52

And keep in mind Zary had some serious injury issues that slowed his development.

NHL games by the guys drafted around Pelletier:

Tomassino 107
McMichael 75
Pelletier 25
Foote 19
Suzuki 0

Doesn’t seem egregiously out of line.

I don't think you can really compare a draft pick to just the guys drafted around him for this kind of analysis. You'd be better off looking at each club and seeing how many of the total games played from their all of their picks. At these positions, each pick is still a bit of a crap shoot.

Even then, Neighbours was injured too, and I'd feel a lot better about it if both Zary and Pelletier had 50 more games each.

Absolutely zero reason that Zary shouldn't have been, at least, given the chances that Neighbours and Barron were. And both Neighbours and Barrron look like promising young players, who are about to jump into the lineup full time. They both got the proper treatment of a cup of coffee for a year or two followed by a half season of NHL time last year.....Zary yet to play an actual NHL game.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Hard to see how Corronato could have played much more - he didn’t sign a contract until March 26. Pelletier played 100 games in the AHL, Zary has played about 130. It’s not uncommon for players drafted in their range to spend 1-2 seasons in the minors.

Here are the NHL games played by guys drafted around Zary in his class:

Lapierre 6
Foerster 8
Zary 0
Barron 46
Neighbours 52

And keep in mind Zary had some serious injury issues that slowed his development. Mavirk Bourque (drafted 6 places after Zary) is ranked as the Stars’ 2nd best prospect, and he’s played 0 NHL games.

NHL games by the guys drafted around Pelletier:

Tomassino 107
McMichael 75
Pelletier 25
Foote 19
Suzuki 0

Doesn’t seem egregiously out of line.

It’s not out of line - these are mid-20s first round picks - they’re basically 2nd rounders at that point.

But you’re making our point - neither Zary or Pelletier are “That Guy”. They’re supporting players. If they were anything more, they’d be here already.

Jonathan Huberdeau is a wonderful hockey player. He is the most talented man in the entire organization. Nobody else comes close, even Lindholm. And if they lose Lindholm, the drop off in talent from Huberdeau to Kadri to Mangiapane/Dube/Pelletier/Backlund….

It’s vast. And it doesn’t get solved even if Coronato is Cole Caufield 2.0.

They need at least three or four more guys who are at, above, or at the very least close to Huberdeau’s level, and those guys have to be found in the draft.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

Absolutely zero reason that Zary shouldn't have been, at least, given the chances that Neighbours and Barron were.

The loss of development time from a concussion and then a broken ankle is a pretty good reason.

Hopefully Zary will get a shot next season. I’d like to see him fight for the #4 C spot in camp - he’ll probably have to beat out Rucizka.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It’s not out of line - these are mid-20s first round picks - they’re basically 2nd rounders at that point.

But you’re making our point - neither Zary or Pelletier are “That Guy”. They’re supporting players. If they were anything more, they’d be here already.

Jonathan Huberdeau is a wonderful hockey player. He is the most talented man in the entire organization. Nobody else comes close, even Lindholm. And if they lose Lindholm, the drop off in talent from Huberdeau to Kadri to Mangiapane/Dube/Pelletier/Backlund….

It’s vast. And it doesn’t get solved even if Coronato is Cole Caufield 2.0.

They need at least three or four more guys who are at, above, or at the very least close to Huberdeau’s level, and those guys have to be found in the draft.

I don’t disagree with any of that. But the Flames aren’t rebuilding, so the prospects they have are the prospects they have. And I don’t think they’ve been held back much.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don’t disagree with any of that. But the Flames aren’t rebuilding, so the prospects they have are the prospects they have. And I don’t think they’ve been held back much.

Awful lot of agreeing happening around here today, it makes me uncomfortable.

[Tkachukwagon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

any rumours?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1669102909370298370

Montreal has the picks and prospects to do it.

[iloveicedhockey]

That would be an interesting move, though I doubt Anaheim entertain it, given the ledge. Would be fun!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

https://twitter.com/user/status/1669102909370298370

Montreal has the picks and prospects to do it.

It will take a ton to do so.

[FlamesAddiction]

Interesting. The only way I could see Anaheim doing it is if Anaheim was thinking of picking Michkov and was convinced he would still be there at 5, then it would be a pretty shrewd move.

[bluejays]

What if Montreal has info that Michkov is gone at 4 and is trying to move up to get him? Additionally, could just be a decoy to get one of the top 4 to think they want to move up when in fact they're targeting at 5 to pick someone else completely (essentially throwing off the scent).

[ForeverFlameFan]

Montreal never hides who they’re after. This screams Michkov.

Honestly, just pick whoever is there at 5. You have the easiest pick.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Montreal never hides who they’re after. This screams Michkov.

Honestly, just pick whoever is there at 5. You have the easiest pick.

I think it screams Fantilli.
5 is the interesting spot, and frankly not an easy pick, because your choices are probably going to be Will Smith who is arguably a step down from the top 4, or Michkov that carries all the risk. One of those will be available. But if Smith goes at 4, I don't think it's a slam dunk they take Michkov.

They want to move into a spot where they get the upside absent that risk.
And I don't think it's possible.

[MacDaddy77]

Anaheim already set with young top
End talent down the middle. If they can stockpile more talent and still only drop
To 5 it’s be a smart move

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

Anaheim already set with young top
End talent down the middle. If they can stockpile more talent and still only drop
To 5 it’s be a smart move

If Anaheim got a ton and ended up with Michkov and he came over within the next year or 2, they could hose the Habs here

I think SJ will take Michkov though. They have a few years to clean things up. They can wait

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

If Anaheim got a ton and ended up with Michkov and he came over within the next year or 2, they could hose the Habs here

I think SJ will take Michkov though. They have a few years to clean things up. They can wait

Yeah, no matter the draft, there are minimum a couple guys needed to raise a team to the playoffs. I'm starting to come to the belief that if Michkov is as good as some think, you say screw it, draft him, tank another year, draft high on another guy, and you have your core developing at the same time. Really makes a ton of sense to not rush things along with just drafting one franchise player and thinking most of your troubles are solved. Chances are another season of tank is still needed and any team drafting Michkov has that luxury of that being the course of action. Any team in the top 7 or so should be taking that approach as even Bedard won't save a franchise immediately.

[Pickle Juice]

What would it take for the flames to move up to the number 2 pick.

Lindholm + Hanifin

Is that enough?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Pickle Juice

What would it take for the flames to move up to the number 2 pick.

Some compromising photos of Pat Verbeek maybe?

[Kipper_3434]

Zary can't skate very well, and faded badly as the season wound down.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Pickle Juice

What would it take for the flames to move up to the number 2 pick.

Lindholm + Hanifin

Is that enough?

Why would Anaheim do that?

It would cost 16th + Wolf + Coronato + 2024 1st, something astronomical. Fantilli is a franchise player in the making. Give them a reason to make that trade. Maybe I went overboard on the valuation, but Anaheim is a rebuilding team. The one team you would have a chance of cracking the top 5 is Montreal or Columbus. Could have really worked out a deal for #3 using Lindholm and Hanifin until Columbus got Provorov for cheaper.