Aviation Appreciation Station v2

[dino7c]

Maybe not directly related to this but its relevant

Trump guts Key Aviation Safety Committee, Fires Heads Of TSA, Coast Guard, Hiring freeze on air traffic controllers. Short sighted to say the least. A bunch a FAA staff got their papers today ironically.

[Acey]

There's a discussion to be had about the potential implications of those decisions but this accident has zero relevance to them so that's perhaps for the orangeman thread.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Acey

There's a discussion to be had about the potential implications of those decisions but this accident has zero relevance to them so that's perhaps for the orangeman thread.

Not so sure, I moved it there though. Major cuts at all levels of aviation safety this week...first accident since 2009

[Mathgod]

Just saw the video of the collision. Horrific.

[chummer]

The video I saw of the collision wasn't very clear, I'm sure many more videos will come out.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Not so sure, I moved it there though. Major cuts at all levels of aviation safety this week...first accident since 2009

There is a rule in air traffic control that has been used since... the beginning of air traffic control. It is called visual separation. Here's how it works:

ATC: Do you see that guy?
Pilot: Yes
ATC: Don't hit him
Pilot: Gotcha

I have done aerial photography in Canada where our pilot was instructed to use this rule to keep us from commercial airplanes. It is not unique to the USA. Visual separation of aircraft has existed since before Trump was born, it will continue to exist after he's done screwing around with the FAA, and it will continue to exist once orangeman is long dead and gone.

The ATC recording of this is already out. ATC asked the helicopter if he saw the plane, he said yes, ATC said don't hit him, but he hit him.

[dino7c]

This is a US Army Blackhawk on a training mission...there is more info to come I assure you

[dino7c]

Hospitals have received no patients, no live bodies pulled from the water thus far.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

there is more info to come I assure you

Yes, I too anticipate that more information will come out about an aviation accident that happened only 3 hours ago... I've read an accident report or two in my day.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Acey

Yes, I too anticipate that more information will come out about an aviation accident that happened only 3 hours ago... I've read an accident report or two in my day.

I mean you are the one going on about visual separation like its case closed. I'm not here to argue. I'm wondering why in the hell is an Army Blackhawk running a training mission at 150 ft above a runway at night in one of the USA's busiest air spaces? Seems that somebody beyond just the pilot has ####ed up.

Guess who is investigating? the just gutted agencies

[Acey]

I'm going on about visual separation because you are saying things like "why in the hell is an Army Blackhawk running a training mission..." when there are many many helicopters of many varieties (news/photo/traffic etc.) in a similar vicinity to commerical airports all day long across the country.

I'm trying to tell you it's completely normal for him to have been there and you seem to not be on board with that idea.

The other thing I'm trying to tell you is that even if the agencies were not "gutted", it doesn't change the fact that visual separation will continue to be used after this accident.

I think your hatred of Trump, and I assure you I hate him too, is affecting your ability to objectively analyze this accident and I'm curious as to what your comments would be had it happened a month ago.

[Minnie]

43 years & 16 days ago, Air Florida Flight 90 crashed into the Potomac after hitting the 14th St Bridge. One of the first major stories I remember as a kid, with near round the clock coverage.

What a tragedy this is.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Acey

I'm going on about visual separation because you are saying things like "why in the hell is an Army Blackhawk running a training mission..." when there are many many helicopters of many varieties (news/photo/traffic etc.) in a similar vicinity to commerical airports all day long across the country.

I'm trying to tell you it's completely normal for him to have been there and you seem to not be on board with that idea.

The other thing I'm trying to tell you is that even if the agencies were not "gutted", it doesn't change the fact that visual separation will continue to be used after this incident.

I mean I just heard an ex general on ABC News say on first look he thinks they were too close to runway and at 150 feet or less

[Acey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I mean I just heard an ex general on ABC News say on first look he thinks they were too close to the commercial runway. And the Agencies have been "gutted" its not a debate. Layoffs and hiring freezes.

So... pilot error and not Trump's slashing of the FAA?

I am not denying that the agencies have been gutted. I am merely questioning that as having any plausible correlation to this accident.

It takes 2 years to train a controller. Trump took office 9 days ago. I'm struggling to believe a hiring freeze on controllers could be a contributing factor here.

[dino7c]

Its all related government agencies including the army itself that have undergone MAJOR "restructuring" not just air traffic controllers. The first major accident in 16 years that happens to include a passenger airline and military jet a week after said cuts is ironic if nothing else.

Maybe the pilot just f'ed up...that is a pretty big F up that hasn't happened over hundreds of thousands of flights.

[fotze2]

This is clearly Trump/Biden/Bush/PP/Smith/Trudeau/Chretien/Harper/Oprah/BillGates/Elon/the Clinton’s/Epstein/jews/china/Russia/Bettman’s/muslims fault.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Its all related government agencies including the army itself that have undergone MAJOR "restructuring" not just air traffic controllers. The first major accident in 16 years that happens to include a passenger airline and military jet a week after said cuts is ironic if nothing else.

Maybe the pilot just f'ed up...that is a pretty big F up that hasn't happened over hundreds of thousands of flights.

You say "maybe the pilot just f'ed up" like it's far fetched when it's literally the most likely scenario, for the record. And boy has it happened over hundreds of thousands of flights. MANY times.

Pilot error is thought to account for 53% of aircraft accidents, with mechanical failure (21%) and weather conditions (11%) following behind.

https://www.panish.law/aviation_acci...tatistics.html

In any case, the point stands... you can go look on FlightRadar as a I type this and there's a police helicopter zooming around surprisingly close to the runway 25L final approach at LAX. All legal.

Again, the rules that allowed this helicopter to be there have been around for decades. Have any rules changed in the last 9 days that made this accident more likely? Have controller duty time rules changed in the last 9 days? Was a controller hired since last Monday going to be the saviour that prevented this accident? We have no idea how many hours the helicopter pilot has under his belt... is there any reason to believe Army restructuring has anything to do with what is an extremely routine sight in the vicinity of Reagan Airport?

[chummer]

Originally Posted by fotze2

This is clearly Trump/Biden/Bush/PP/Smith/Trudeau/Chretien/Harper/Oprah/BillGates/Elon/the Clinton’s/Epstein/jews/china/Russia/Bettman’s/muslims fault.

You forgot Dr. Phil.

[dino7c]

There hasn't been a major accident involving a passenger airline in american airspace in 16 years...this is NOT something that has happened hundreds of times. Sure there are mistakes but not at this level...its extremely rare.

[fotze2]

Were the pilots vaxxed?