[Rumour] McKenzie: Gaudreau & Flames are closing gap, but it's still a considerable gap.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

To me that strikes me as the family and player having little confidence in the agent and the representation being given. If there was greater trust in the agent (and strategy being employed) then the family would not feel the need to get involved.

Further, it seems public sentiment is starting to shift away from the player and towards the organization. From my observation that is tied to the way the agent is playing this. Fans in a hockey market are aware of the Lindros situation and want nothing to do with it. Again, it raises questions about the representation of the player.

Perhaps the best solution is for the player to seek alternate agency?

Yes, that's a good thought and definitely in the realm of possibility. I'd actually say it's probably a little bit of both. Perhaps the agent has portrayed the team as being unfair and attempting to hold the player hostage, and the family wants to more or less see it for themselves.

The only way the meeting could be a positive thing is if the team and the family find more middle ground than the agent portrayed.

If the agent's portrayal is proven accurate and the family has a negative experience with the team (which is what it sounds like), then I think we are in a really bad spot.

If the player, the agent, and the family all feel that the team is acting unfairly or not treating the player with respect, the nightmare that he's played his last game in a Flames uniform becomes an actual possibility.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be a negative about the situation, that's just my honest read on it.

[JerryUnderscore]

The real question is, when does the Treliving family eat Thanksgiving dinner?

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by FBI

Dammit. Another wake up, another non signing.
*jeopardy theme song*

Miss Cleo said 2:30 this afternoon man... Jeeze a little patience already.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Which would make sense if you expected Gaudreau to be a robot locked to mathematical sequence.

It's not a mathematical sequence you have to buy into. He's gotten better every year without exception. Are there many 23 year olds who have shown the same trend? It shows he's a high IQ player who keeps improving.

Could he have hit his peak? Possibly. Would I bet on him to fall off from his current level? Hell no.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

The real question is, when does the Treliving family eat Thanksgiving dinner?

November 24th :S

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Yes, that's a good thought and definitely in the realm of possibility. I'd actually say it's probably a little bit of both. Perhaps the agent has portrayed the team as being unfair and attempting to hold the player hostage, and the family wants to more or less see it for themselves.

The only way the meeting could be a positive thing is if the team and the family find more middle ground than the agent portrayed.

If the agent's portrayal is proven accurate and the family has a negative experience with the team (which is what it sounds like), then I think we are in a really bad spot.

If the player, the agent, and the family all feel that the team is acting unfairly or not treating the player with respect, the nightmare that he's played his last game in a Flames uniform becomes an actual possibility.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be a negative about the situation, that's just my honest read on it.

We all understand that's your honest read on it. But anytime there's been the slightest bit of news you've continued to skew that news to be a bad thing.

This entire time you have been working with a narrative that paints Johnny as the good guy and the Flames as the bad guy. Everything you read or hear is filtered through that narrative.

So when the Flames say "We're getting closer" you hear "We're not there yet". When Johnny says "I want to play in Calgary long term" you respond with "Of course he'd say that, but he doesn't mean it."

I don't think anyone doubts that you genuinely believe what you're saying, we just doubt you're unbiased in any way whatsoever.

[socalwingfan]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

If the agent's portrayal is proven accurate and the family has a negative experience with the team (which is what it sounds like), then I think we are in a really bad spot.

Where other than in your own head, has this even been remotely suggested??

[saXon]

Originally Posted by Slacker

Me reading any of those threads.

I share that sentiment

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Yes, that's a good thought and definitely in the realm of possibility. I'd actually say it's probably a little bit of both. Perhaps the agent has portrayed the team as being unfair and attempting to hold the player hostage, and the family wants to more or less see it for themselves.

The only way the meeting could be a positive thing is if the team and the family find more middle ground than the agent portrayed.

If the agent's portrayal is proven accurate and the family has a negative experience with the team (which is what it sounds like), then I think we are in a really bad spot.

If the player, the agent, and the family all feel that the team is acting unfairly or not treating the player with respect, the nightmare that he's played his last game in a Flames uniform becomes an actual possibility.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be a negative about the situation, that's just my honest read on it.

I just don't get why the family would think the flames aren't treating Johnny with " respect"? Is the only way to win his "respect" is to write him a blank cheque?

I would think the agent told Johnny and his family that asking for unprecedented dollars meant that it was going to take a long while and could lead to a bit of ugliness. The only way Johnny and his family would feel desrespected is if they were asking for Monahan type money and flames said no.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

There's one difficulty with what you say.

The Flames' ‘down’ year after winning the Cup was '89-90. That year, as it happens, though they did not win the President's Trophy, they finished 2nd overall, two points back of the Bruins.

The Gilmour arbitration did not happen until the summer of 1991. As a result of arbitration, Gilmour had a valid contract for 1991-92, but he walked out on the team in mid-season and demanded a trade.

The ‘down’ year and the Gilmour walkout had absolutely nothing to do with one another.

OK, back to lurking and waiting for news.

This, plus Gilmour didn't walk out until half the season was over, and only after he supposedly overheard Risebrough say something about trading him.

Yea, I considered the 90 (and the 91) teams successful generally, though they obviously were upset by the Kings (and then went on a ridiculous streak of no series wins). They were an extremely good team with a high winning percentage.

[Finger Cookin]

Taking emotion and "whose side are you on?" out of this for a sec, I'm starting to feel like it's now almost certain that Gaudreau is going to miss some games. I haven't been running around worrying about the sky falling every day since July 1. But I am genuinely surprised that a deal isn't done yet.

If the mods feel up to it, perhaps a poll could be added to this thread, or to a new thread?

How many games do you think Johnny Gaudreau will miss before signing?
0
1-3
4-6
7-9
10+

Or whatever breakdowns the mods prefer.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Perhaps the agent has portrayed the team as being unfair and attempting to hold the player hostage, and the family wants to more or less see it for themselves.


If the agent's portrayal is proven accurate and the family has a negative experience with the team (which is what it sounds like), then I think we are in a really bad spot.

If the player, the agent, and the family all feel that the team is acting unfairly or not treating the player with respect, the nightmare that he's played his last game in a Flames uniform becomes an actual possibility.

Resources are reliably finite in a cap world. If Johnny and/or his parents are unfamiliar with that concept and jump to a conclusion that the team is holding the player hostage, then they are setting themselves up for disappointment. Gaudreau is very much doing to the team what the team is doing to him. They are most likely well aware of that.

[Sutter_in_law]

Maybe they just had dinner together seeing as they were all in the same city and all expect to have a long term business relationship with eachother??

Nevermind, it likely means that Johnny demanded a trade to the Oilers.
-am I doing this right?

[Southside]

If a deal isn't done today then it seems Johnny will be missing game (s). Between travel and getting into a practice session today sort of looks like the breaking point.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Which would make sense if you expected Gaudreau to be a robot locked to mathematical sequence.

At some point, the sequence will go negative. But you should expect to see a drop in his rate of improvement first.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Which would make sense if you expected Gaudreau to be a robot locked to mathematical sequence.

Thank you

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by sebc

here's a quick exercise, predict x in this series: 4, 14, 17, 4, 15, x.

Spoiler!

that's gaudreau's career progression in terms of change in nhl-equivalent scoring. If you think he's at his peak you're predicting a negative number.

19

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

We all understand that's your honest read on it. But anytime there's been the slightest bit of news you've continued to skew that news to be a bad thing.

This entire time you have been working with a narrative that paints Johnny as the good guy and the Flames as the bad guy. Everything you read or hear is filtered through that narrative.

So when the Flames say "We're getting closer" you hear "We're not there yet". When Johnny says "I want to play in Calgary long term" you respond with "Of course he'd say that, but he doesn't mean it."

I don't think anyone doubts that you genuinely believe what you're saying, we just doubt you're unbiased in any way whatsoever.

There are a bunch of posters here who do the exact opposite, yet I don't see them getting called out for it? I assure you I am not the only person with a biased perspective, there far more people blaming the player/agent than there are putting blame on the team. The boards just seem more willing to accept bias in favor of Burke/Treliving, meanwhile I keep getting called out for advocating for the player.

[CroFlames]

I was hoping to wake up this morning and see a new thread announcing the deal.

I ask too much for thanksgiving it would appear.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

There are a bunch of posters here who do the exact opposite, yet I don't see them getting called out for it? I assure you I am not the only person with a biased perspective, there far more people blaming the player/agent than there are putting blame on the team. The boards just seem more willing to accept bias in favor of Burke/Treliving, meanwhile I keep getting called out for advocating for the player.

So, first of all, you accept that you're biased in this conversation. That's at least a start.

Second, you're probably right that some people are biased towards the team. Except people like Ricardo are getting called out when they make statements like "Gaudreau's best season is already behind him" or whatever absurd thing he's saying now.

Third, there are a few reasons so many people are on "Team Flames". To start with, most of us are Flames fans first and Johnny Gaudreau fans second. We want to see the team succeed more than we want to see any single player succeed. If you took a poll asking which option people prefer between Gaudreau winning the Art Ross and the Flames winning the Stanley Cup, overwhelmingly people would vote for the Flames winning the Cup. Fortunately, these things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the better Gaudreau does, the better the team does (by and large).

Additionally, most people on this forum are on "Team Flames" because we understand that in a salary cap world, what salary you give one player will drastically alter what you can give another player. Which means the more Gaudreau is signed for, the less we will have available to sign other players.

This goes back to what I said weeks ago about cap efficiency. In a salary cap world the teams that win the Stanley Cup are the teams that most efficiently use their salary cap space.

With that in mind, of course all of us are going to hope that Brad gets Johnny signs for the smallest cap possible. If there were no salary cap, maybe we would feel differently. Maybe we would all call the Flames cheap for not signed Johnny to an $8M. But that's not the world we live in.

So it's not that most of us are anti-Gaudreau (although I suppose some more pessimistic posters could be?), but instead that we're fans of the Flames. We want the Flames to do well, which means we want them to sign Johnny to the most cap friendly deal possible.