Craig's List 2014 Prospects

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So who are you going to trade next year, Brodie?

Trading one doesn't mean you have to trade them all. Not sure where you're going with that.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

What I'm saying is that giving up on Backlund when he is just reaching his peak, puts our rebuild back a year or two and we'll be in a perpetual state of picking top five. There comes a time when you stop giving away your vets for futures.

We're still only in year one of the full rebuild, I'd agree with you if it we're a couple years from now.

On the one hand Backlund is coming into his own and there would be nothing wrong with keeping him, but his improvement is also what gives him trade value.

Of course this is all an Eklund rumor about Buffalo, so likely has little truth. But we also have Burke, and I bet he loves the large defenseman and would do something a bit bold to get him.

Ekblad + Backlund = Eklund. It's meant to be.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Bunk

We're still only in year one of the full rebuild, I'd agree with you if it we're a couple years from now.

On the one hand Backlund is coming into his own and there would be nothing wrong with keeping him, but his improvement is also what gives him trade value.

Of course this is all an Eklund rumor about Buffalo, so likely has little truth. But we also have Burke, and I bet he loves the large defenseman and would do something a bit bold to get him.

Ekblad + Backlund = Eklund. It's meant to be.

I don't have much respect for anyone who follows Eklund.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I don't have much respect for anyone who follows Eklund.

Never go to the place. Horrible waste of time. But, was posted here, so sparked the what if discussion.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Backs has played well enough for me to consider him one of the untouchables.

How is a 2nd line player considered untouchable?

I am not one for trading everybody but if the flames keep all prospects and young players, in 2 years the flames will have the smallest team in the NHL. Even if Burke hits a home run with every pick this year, and drafts big players, it would still take 3-4 years until they are ready for the NHL. Flames need to get at least one youngster that is big and is near NHL ready. I doubt that kind of youngster would come cheap.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Fair comment. But I don't mean in the last couple of weeks. The guy is a really smart, very versatile, two way C and he shoots right (bonus). So I guess I should love him.

I guess I project him the same as I project Monahan. As a really good 2-line C on a cup calibre team. I think we need some meanness and attitude up the middle and having Monahan makes Reinhart a bit redundant. If those two are our top 2 C we will have the nicest and quietest C in the league!

I would love to have him in our system. But I think we can leverage that pick to better fill holes in our system.

Why do you project Reinhart as a 2nd liner C instead of a first liner? What about his game gives you that perception that he isn't potential 1st line C material?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Why do you project Reinhart as a 2nd liner C instead of a first liner? What about his game gives you that perception that he isn't potential 1st line C material?

Or Monahan for that matter.

[$ven27]

If Reinhart hits his potential he's a 1st line center. Maybe not an elite one but having Monahan and Reinhart down the middle would be fantastic.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Why do you project Reinhart as a 2nd liner C instead of a first liner? What about his game gives you that perception that he isn't potential 1st line C material?

I am always very cautious in my projections. Centre is one of the most important positions in the game. There are 20 or so top players at the position. There are usually only a couple in every draft. Last draft Mackinnon is the only player I had projected as a top C.

If you expand the definition to a player that could play on a top line on some teams than I would project Reinhart at that level. But in my opinion we are trying to build a cup team.

That said, Reinhart (and Monahan) could exceed my expectations. None of us get paid to do this, and those that do are just making a slightly more educated guess!

[Day Tripper]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I am always very cautious in my projections. Centre is one of the most important positions in the game. There are 20 or so top players at the position. There are usually only a couple in every draft. Last draft Mackinnon is the only player I had projected as a top C.

If you expand the definition to a player that could play on a top line on some teams than I would project Reinhart at that level. But in my opinion we are trying to build a cup team.

That said, Reinhart (and Monahan) could exceed my expectations. None of us get paid to do this, and those that do are just making a slightly more educated guess!

For reference, here's the average 1st/2nd/3rd/4th line forward production pro-rated to 82 games:

1st Line Forward - 67 points
2nd Line Forward - 46 points
3rd Line Forward - 34 points
4th Line Forward - 23 points

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I am always very cautious in my projections. Centre is one of the most important positions in the game. There are 20 or so top players at the position. There are usually only a couple in every draft. Last draft Mackinnon is the only player I had projected as a top C.

If you expand the definition to a player that could play on a top line on some teams than I would project Reinhart at that level. But in my opinion we are trying to build a cup team.

That said, Reinhart (and Monahan) could exceed my expectations. None of us get paid to do this, and those that do are just making a slightly more educated guess!

You haven't really answered the question though, except by summarizing that it is highly unlikely any prospect becomes a 1st line center. There is no reasoning beyond that, and it appears you are not looking at Reinhart at all, but are just basing your opinion on nothing more than just generalities of how likely prospects turn into high-impact players in the NHL.

When you compare Reinhart against the draft years of notable 1st line centers, he is at that level - higher than a lot of 1st line centers in the NHL, actually. His size is right there too. He is also not benefiting from playing on a powerhouse team - he is the 1st target for all shutdown attention in every game he plays in from opposing teams.

Factor in that he plays an extremely good complete game - works hard in all 3 zones and has tremendous IQ in doing so, which many other current 1st line centers have never done in Junior (so you would assume less time backchecking and the sheer energy expended would only pad their offensive stats, unlike what Reinhart is doing), and it becomes more difficult to say he does not project at that level. Factor in intangibles like leadership and a high-work ethic, and I am just perplexed at how people don't have that projection.

Is there anything about Reinhart as a prospect that I am not seeing that makes you think he is not 1st line center projection, other than the fact that low numbers of drafted players turn into one? What is your cut-off in stats, size, or whatever other factors you think separate projected 1st line centers from 2nd line centers at the junior level?

Also, I am not trying to 'attack' you or debate you, and I am not trying to force you to change your opinion - I am actually just curious what holes or what obstacles you think he will not overcome that limit your personal projections on him. Maybe there are things I am not seeing personally, and to me it seems like this kid is the definition of 'for sure' 1st line center given a few more years of development, especially considering that he doesn't really have any weaknesses to his game, and plays a very good defensive game already while still generating an obscene amount of offence.

[PeteMoss]

Worth noting that all of the top 4 forwards (Reinhart/Draisaitl/Bennett/Dal Colle) greatly outscored Monahan in his draft year. This draft may not have the depth or the MacKinnon type player but I think the top end of this draft is going to be similar to last year (excluding MacKinnon).

Draisaitl is most similar to Monahan in that he's a late birthday and a similar size:
Monahan - 78 points in 58 games (31 goals)
Draisaitl - 105 points in 64 games (38 goals)

Draisaitl's team is better than Monahan's was, but its not a powerhouse by any means.

Points obviously aren't the most important thing in the world when it comes to NHL development, but I think the top end of this draft is being under-rated. Reinhart has a higher PPG this year in the WHL than MacKinnon did last year in the QMJHL.

[d_phaneuf]

Jason Botchford said today in the province that from talking with Canucks people they have it at two tiers right now

1 and 2

3 to 8

after 8 they think it's a big drop off

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Worth noting that all of the top 4 forwards (Reinhart/Draisaitl/Bennett/Dal Colle) greatly outscored Monahan in his draft year. This draft may not have the depth or the MacKinnon type player but I think the top end of this draft is going to be similar to last year (excluding MacKinnon).

Draisaitl is most similar to Monahan in that he's a late birthday and a similar size:
Monahan - 78 points in 58 games (31 goals)
Draisaitl - 105 points in 64 games (38 goals)

Draisaitl's team is better than Monahan's was, but its not a powerhouse by any means.

Points obviously aren't the most important thing in the world when it comes to NHL development, but I think the top end of this draft is being under-rated. Reinhart has a higher PPG this year in the WHL than MacKinnon did last year in the QMJHL.

I think the reason people seem a bit nonchalant about it is because of next year's, rather than comparing it to other drafts they are comparing it to one that supposedly has 2 generational talents

[Bunk]

There seems to be a clear top 4. Which, of course, means Calgary will be drafting 5th.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Jason Botchford said today in the province that from talking with Canucks people they have it at two tiers right now

1 and 2

3 to 8

after 8 they think it's a big drop off

sounds like Gillis expects to be drafting 8th

[Day Tripper]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Burke spotted at the Barrie arena. Taking in the Peterborough/Barrie game tonight.

Craig Conroy too:

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Day Tripper

Craig Conroy too:

Nicholas Ritchie (Peterborough) and Aaron Ekblad (Barrie) are the most likely targets.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I wish Burke would just get it over with and name Conroy GM now.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Jason Botchford said today in the province that from talking with Canucks people they have it at two tiers right now

1 and 2

3 to 8

after 8 they think it's a big drop off

1 and 2 = Renihart and Ekblad
3 to 8 = Bennett, Draisaitl, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Nylander, Perlini
What about Fleury, Ritchie, Ehlers ?