April 23 2012: Alberta Provincial Election

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Population growth is not necessarily a reason for increased infrastructure spending. In theory if a city/province plans its infrastructure properly and correctly projects population trends, it should already have strong infrastructure in place.

What the what? Planning doesn't create infrastructure, spending does. All you've done is shifted the spending ahead of demand... but then Alberta is presumably expecting growth, so whether for building for current growth or future growth (having already built for current growth), growth is still driving increased infrastructure spending.

[REDVAN]

hey all, didn't have a chance to read the whole thread.

I am going to be away for the voting day- can anyone point me in the right direction for advanced polls?

[Senator Clay Davis]

But if you're a good government, you should plan for growth ahead of time. Its critical to anticipate the potential for growth and in the case of this province how could anyone anticipate such a large population growth so quickly? But by planning for growth in advance by building roads and schools and hospitals before full capacity in them is needed you aren't having to play as much catch up if any, and in theory it should be cheaper to do it this way.

A great example is with C-Trains. All stations that were initially built were meant to handle 3 cars, but obviously back in 1981 if they had expected population growth to be almost 100% (which it basically was between 1980 and 2000), they likely would have built platforms for the potential to accomodate 4 or even more cars. Obviously would have saved a ton of money instead of having to extend all platforms. But how can you really expect that kind of population boom?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

hey all, didn't have a chance to read the whole thread.

I am going to be away for the voting day- can anyone point me in the right direction for advanced polls?

https://specialballot.elections.ab.ca/

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

hey all, didn't have a chance to read the whole thread.

I am going to be away for the voting day- can anyone point me in the right direction for advanced polls?

Go here http://wtv.elections.ab.ca/wtWhereDoIVote.cfm?WTVSrch=U and enter your address. If you scroll down from there it will tell where you can go for the advance polls on the 19, 20 and 21st. You can also apply for a special ballot if you will not be available during those days either. Go here http://www.elections.ab.ca and click on special ballot to find out more.

Of course the above only applies if you are voting Wildrose. If you are voting for another party you have to go to the Saddledome and find one of the cleaners to place your vote.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Judging from many comments I've read on this forum and *shudder* newpaper comments sections, many far-right posters really do think Redford is a left-wing extremist like Jack Layton and the Alberta Liberals and NDP are following in the footsteps of Marx, Lenin, and Mao.

My Thoughts on how some parties are getting labelled differently on the right-left spectrum in this election:

I don't really think it' unfair to label Redford as Liberal if the word 'blue' is put in front of it. She's more Liberal in the mold of Paul Martin than Stephane Dion and more 'conservative' in the mold of Joe Clark than Stephen Harper. The problem for her is that the Province seemed to have no problem voting in Stephen Harper's Conservatives last May to the tune of 60%+ support and threw Joe Clark's PC party to the dogs vs. the Canadian Alliance the last time he led the federal PCs.

As for the Liberals being called massive lefties, I actually can see how some people can honestly believe that and not suffer from delusion. Look at the policies of the Liberal Party platform and put it right up against the NDP's platform. Hell look at Taft's platform from 2008 vs. Sherman's 2012 platform. There's a whole lot more income redistribution going on in Sherman's platform! Looking at the NDP platform outside of a couple of NDP pro-union axes to grind they look very similar to the Liberals. In fact if you make $250k/year in this province, the Raj Sherman Liberals actually want to take a magnitude more of your income in taxes than Brian Mason's NDP.

[MarchHare]

As for the Liberals being called massive lefties, I actually can see how some people can honestly believe that and not suffer from delusion. Look at the policies of the Liberal Party platform and put it right up against the NDP's platform. Hell look at Taft's platform from 2008 vs. Sherman's 2012 platform. There's a whole lot more income redistribution going on in Sherman's platform! Looking at the NDP platform outside of a couple of NDP pro-union axes to grind they look a whole very similar to the Liberals. In fact if you make $250k/year in this province, the Raj Sherman Liberals actually want to take a magnitude more of your income in taxes than Brian Mason's NDP.

Sure, but that's not at all the same as the Liberals and NDP being Marxists, a label they've been given by many on the far-right.

Even Jack Layton's federal NDP, a party much too far to the left to attract my vote, were not communists.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Sure, but that's not at all the same as the Liberals and NDP being Marxists, a label they've been given by many on the far-right.

Even Jack Layton's federal NDP, a party much too far to the left to attract my vote, were not communists.

Oh, without a doubt massive hyperbole if anything Soviet gets mentioned!

[Senator Clay Davis]

But acting like the far right actually analyzes the talking points for themselves before they say what they've been fed is debatable.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Sure, but that's not at all the same as the Liberals and NDP being Marxists, a label they've been given by many on the far-right.

Even Jack Layton's federal NDP, a party much too far to the left to attract my vote, were not communists.

I consider myself right of center and a Wildrose supporter but would never seriously call the NDP communists or Marxists. Although I am sure I have said it jest after a few beers.
I think we need a new label to replace the whole left right thing. Or separate it into two spectrums, one for fiscal policy and another for social policy. There are a lot of us who believe that fiscal responsibility can and should go hand in hand with providing strong social support systems.

Maybe a political sphere would be more apt. I could then state that I am moderate northwest hemisphere guy and look disdainfully on the silly people who agree with the principles of the south eastern hemisphere.

[starseed]

Will there be any site to watch the debate online?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

My Thoughts on how some parties are getting labelled differently on the right-left spectrum in this election:

I don't really think it' unfair to label Redford as Liberal if the word 'blue' is put in front of it. She's more Liberal in the mold of Paul Martin than Stephane Dion and more 'conservative' in the mold of Joe Clark than Stephen Harper. The problem for her is that the Province seemed to have no problem voting in Stephen Harper's Conservatives last May to the tune of 60%+ support and threw Joe Clark's PC party to the dogs vs. the Canadian Alliance the last time he led the federal PCs.

As for the Liberals being called massive lefties, I actually can see how some people can honestly believe that and not suffer from delusion. Look at the policies of the Liberal Party platform and put it right up against the NDP's platform. Hell look at Taft's platform from 2008 vs. Sherman's 2012 platform. There's a whole lot more income redistribution going on in Sherman's platform! Looking at the NDP platform outside of a couple of NDP pro-union axes to grind they look very similar to the Liberals. In fact if you make $250k/year in this province, the Raj Sherman Liberals actually want to take a magnitude more of your income in taxes than Brian Mason's NDP.

Pretty much. In my view, the NDP is still the NDP, but the Liberals are pushing right up against them, or gone further left in some ways. I suspect the Liberals are moving left because the PCs are. Wildrose was originally PCers pissed off at Stelmach, but has since become the people the PCs left behind.

Whether or not the government changes in two weeks, I think it is clear Alberta is pulling another massive shift as it is prone to do every 3-4 decades. In time, I believe there will be a couple of mergers on the left, and we will be back to a three party system with Wildrose as the right wing, the PCs in the centre and NDP/Liberals on the left under a new banner that escapes the negative connotations both names carry in this province (likely a usurpation of the Alberta party name)

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by starseed

Will there be any site to watch the debate online?

GlobalTVs website and someone else mentioned Alberta Party leader Glenn Taylor will be streaming and blogging along with questions on their website.

[JonDuke]

Nm....saw it was already posted

[Resolute 14]

Interesting looking at three polls taken post-conscience rights "scandal" that shows the PCs failed to make inroads. Tonight might well be Redford's last gasp. She needs a home run.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Interesting looking at three polls taken post-conscience rights "scandal" that shows the PCs failed to make inroads. Tonight might well be Redford's last gasp. She needs a home run.

I've only seen the poll done by the Herald that had the PCs and the Wildrose in a statisical tie (Which implies it certainly does have an effect) and the poll done by CTV News that came out today that suggested nothing had changed from the polls indicating a Wildrose Majority. What were the other two post-Easter weekend polls that had the Wildrose in a majority drivers seat?

I can see the point though that the Wildrose probably still is in the drivers seat. I base this on the fact that this week the PC's have shifted gears. I've always maintained that the Parties themselves know more than the public polls (Harper proved this last May, when the Conservatives were still pushing a majority across the finish line while the talking heads were talking about when Layton would ask the GG to form a government with the Liberals). The whole 'Not Your Father's PCs', 'Too many old white guys' routine and other fear mongering on anything but issues confirms the PC desperation for me. Stephen Carter is seeing they're getting wiped out in Calgary and in the rural ridings and is trying to scare Calgarians back into voting PC and out shopping for votes trying to piece together and manipulate voting blocks into a minority or majority PC government (Apparently they want to buy off diabetics by promising free insulin pumps now, it reminds me of the final hour teacher bribe to reverse education cuts to motivate an ATA voting bloc for Redford). To me it seems by the way Redford campaigns have been run that Carter's a data miner who does elaborate research to try and clump people into groups and then manipulate those groups into voting for the party he represents by throwing a bone to said groups.

Another thing that highlights positives for the Wildrose is inside that CTV poll contianed the question of whether or not the PCs deserved to be in government any more that had 50% voting 'NO' with 20+% still undecided. Meaning that the ballot box issue might very well come down to whether the PC's deserve any more time than 41 years. If that's the question than these symantics about whether the Wildrose's promises add up any better than the PCs promises become irrelevent and the voters just want to flush out the PCs.

[Resolute 14]

The "dead heat" poll was Leger, and was taken April 5-8. Leger has also consistently polled Wildrose a little lower, and the PCs a little higher than the other firms.

Forum Research, taken April 9 has it 43-31 Wildrose

Think HQ, taken April 9-10 has it 43-29 Wildrose.

Campaign Research, taken April 11, has it 43-35 Wildrose.

Forum and Think HQ's numbers are virtually unchanged from the week previous. Campaign Research actually has the PCs up about 6.5 points, but as much of that comes at the expense of the Liberals and NDP as it does Wildrose.

[c.t.ner]

To add, SunNewsNetwork "Broke" this new poll so fast they screwed up their calculations.

@SunNewsNetwork 8:18pm via HootSuite
#SunNews exclusive poll: WRP 46%, PC 29%, NDP 12%, ALP 10%, NDP 11%, Other 2%. #ABvote Shaw Digital 177 for more.

Basically, the WRP are 17 points up on the PCs right now. with the NDP at 12% and ALB 11% and everyone else is 2%.

Redford needs to go big or go home now.

[Senator Clay Davis]

What I think the debate will be about ultimately is can Danielle convince people the Wildrose should be given a majority or not, which obviously means she needs to turn some seats in Edmonton.

[Resolute 14]

That depends. If 308's numbers are remotely accurate, she's dominating Calgary and rural Alberta to the point that she doesn't need Edmonton at all. Edmonton is going to be a fun battleground though. I think we'll probably see vote splitting in all directions leading to a couple seats going in a direction nobody expects.