[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[MissTeeks]

From Friedman’s 31 Thoughts:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...erview-period/

2. I really don’t like taking shots at players who get traded. You’re gone, move on, let’s go. Dougie Hamilton was hit with personal criticism when dealt from Boston to Calgary, and now while en route to Carolina. Hamilton politely declined a request to address all this, not wanting to toss more gasoline on the fire.

The move out of Massachusetts definitely was a personality clash, with differing opinions on who was right and who was wrong. After making a few calls, this is not about who’s attending team slumber parties. This is about role. Hamilton did not formally request a trade, but there is confirmation there were discussions about his spot in the lineup. There was agreement a move would be better for both sides.

The Flames wanted to re-unite TJ Brodie and Mark Giordano, which will happen. They felt Travis Hamonic would benefit from playing with a steadier partner, as opposed to Brodie, more of a jazz-musician freelancer. That would take Hamilton off the top pair, which didn’t thrill him. He also didn’t start last season on the top power play, eventually replacing Brodie midway through. That was another bone of contention. This was necessary for both player and team. Hamilton will benefit from Carolina: he hears everything. Less noise there.

Noah Hanifin and Elias Lindholm were unhappy, too. Their contract talks were difficult, with Lindholm’s last conversation ending in a blowup the day before he was traded. A lot of players eager to prove something.

3. Last summer, when Calgary traded for Hamonic, the Flames fought hard to keep Adam Fox from the Islanders. Before Round 1 on Friday, Flames GM Brad Treliving made his final pitch to Fox’s advisor, Matt Keator. Treliving wasn’t going to risk losing him for nothing.

[TheGrimm]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

I also like the fact that Lindholm is said to excell at zone entries and is an excellent passer with high hockey IQ.

It will be nice to see another option other than watching Gaudreau weave his way up the ice while praying he doesn't get flattened shift after shift.

[Machiavelli]

Hamilton didn't want to play second pairing minutes, then

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How about Matthew Tkachuk?

If Tkachuk can be that player and the Flames can fill his spot on 2nd line LW from FA or trade I’d be over the moon. I’ve always wanted to see him on the Gaudreau line but GG never tried it.

I don’t want this team to fail. I’d love to see a threatening top 6 on this team for the first time since Mike Keenan. Right now it’s not there but I’m withholding my final opinion.

[stang]

Originally Posted by 868904

2) Hamilton’s Personality – I don’t care about the cross dressing,

Ok what????

[nik-]

Originally Posted by stang

Ok what????

He wore a princess dress to a Halloween dress-up visit to sick kids in a hospital and now 868904 is making a huge leap.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I agree if you get value like Stone is return. Chances are that wasn't on the table. the two may come in as middle forward and 2nd pairing, but that is the floor. I think both players have a pretty decent chance to be more.

I see far more value in doing Dougie for:

23 y/o - Lindholm (45pts avg) on a struggling Carolina team
21 y/o - Hanifin (30 pts avg) on a struggling Carolina team - 4th man minutes

Then trading 1 for 1 for:

26 y/o - Stone (60pts avg) 20g/40a playing primarily top line minutes.

This because I think Lindholm can = 60pts w/ Calgary and wont command the same salary Stone gets and is 3 years younger giving us a bigger window.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

The question I want to pose is how much better are Gaudreau/Monahan than Aho/Teravainen? Enough to expect a 30% increase in production?...

I would say that as of today the Gaudrau + Monahan combination is MUCH better than Aho + Terevainen, but moreover, I think our expectations for Lindholm should possibly be higher considering how common it is for players who grew up in the SEL to experience offensive outbursts in their mid-twenties. Most notably, we have seen this with Henrik Zetterberg, Daniel and Henrik Sedin, Mikael Backlund, and William Karlsson. But a number of other less talented players such as Jacob Silfverberg, Calle Jarnkrok, and Joel Armia have recently shown bursts of offensive improvement as they have approached 25. Hell, even just this past year Filip Forsberg in his 23-year-old season made a big jump from around a 0.8 pts/gp player to a 1.00 pts/gp player. Forsberg is four months older than Lindholm.

The ingredients are all there for Lindholm to take a big step. It seems like a good bet to me.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But this focus on points also neglects the Monahan + Gaudreau factor. Swapping Ferland out—a player who ONCE scored 20/40 while playing on the top line—for a player who has done it consistently with lesser players is definitely a big upgrade.

Well Lindholm has never scored 20 goals, much less done it consistently.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I see far more value in doing Dougie for:

23 y/o - Lindholm (45pts avg) on a struggling Carolina team
21 y/o - Hanifin (30 pts avg) on a struggling Carolina team - 4th man minutes

Then trading 1 for 1 for:

26 y/o - Stone (60pts avg) 20g/40a playing primarily top line minutes.

This because I think Lindholm can = 60pts w/ Calgary and wont command the same salary Stone gets and is 3 years younger giving us a bigger window.

Sort of a weird comparison you are making. Lindhom was also play top line minutes on a better team. You would think he gets more points then Stone who played with worse line mates .

The Salary and being younger is what you should be focusing on more so then production. I'll be curious to see what happens with Lindholm as he mentioned he prefers to play center. Maybe that changes in Calgary though.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

If Tkachuk can be that player and the Flames can fill his spot on 2nd line LW from FA or trade I’d be over the moon. I’ve always wanted to see him on the Gaudreau line but GG never tried it...

Matthew Tkachuk scored 24-goals in an injury shortened 20-year-old season on the second line. He is getting 30 no matter who he plays with.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well Lindholm has never scored 20 goals, much less done it consistently.

Prior to his breakout year last season on the top line, neither had Ferland.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But this focus on points also neglects the Monahan + Gaudreau factor. Swapping Ferland out—a player who ONCE scored 20/40 while playing on the top line—for a player who has done it consistently with lesser players is definitely a big upgrade.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well Lindholm has never scored 20 goals, much less done it consistently.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Prior to his breakout year last season on the top line, neither had Ferland.

Who were you referring to in your earlier post that had consistently has scored 20/40? I assumed Lindholm.

Flames only win this trade if Hanifin and Lindholm improve form where they are today. It is an OK bet to make IMO. But let's not inflate their accomplishments for the sake of defending the deal.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I would say that as of today the Gaudrau + Monahan combination is MUCH better than Aho + Terevainen, but moreover, I think our expectations for Lindholm should possibly be higher considering how common it is for players who grew up in the SEL to experience offensive outbursts in their mid-twenties. Most notably, we have seen this with Henrik Zetterberg, Daniel and Henrik Sedin, Mikael Backlund, and William Karlsson. But a number of other less talented players such as Jacob Silfverberg, Calle Jarnkrok, and Joel Armia have recently shown bursts of offensive improvement as they have approached 25. Hell, even just this past year Filip Forsberg in his 23-year-old season made a big jump from around a 0.8 pts/gp player to a 1.00 pts/gp player. Forsberg is four months older than Lindholm.

The ingredients are all there for Lindholm to take a big step. It seems like a good bet to me.

Fair enough man. I hope your projections are right, and you make a fair case.

I have more moderate expectations but would gladly love to be proven wrong

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1011278627059560449

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Hamilton didn't want to play second pairing minutes, then

Sounds like he was a whiney bitch about his role and not really willing to take a supposed step back to benefit the team. Think I will be happy with the outcome of this trade.

I often talked about the Flames lack of flexibility within their pairings and it revolved around Hamilton not being able to carry a line. I would love to see Hamonic and Giordano together ding the heavy defensive lifting rather than Hamilton but the rest of the pairs never looked right. Not sure we have gained much in that regards but I like the sounds of a Hamonic-Hanifin pairing.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Sort of a weird comparison you are making. Lindhom was also play top line minutes on a better team. You would think he gets more points then Stone who played with worse line mates .

The Salary and being younger is what you should be focusing on more so then production. I'll be curious to see what happens with Lindholm as he mentioned he prefers to play center. Maybe that changes in Calgary though.

That's not true at all though:

Stone AVG TOI - #1 of all forwards @ 20:40
Lindholm AVG TOI - #3 of all forwards @ 17:54

That in itself if a big chunk @ basically 3 minutes less per game.

Both players played primarily 1st line PP and 1st line 5v5 minutes but Ottawa's roster @ forward seems a lot more balanced then Carolina's as Mark usually played along side Brassard/Hoffman or Dzingel and their line usage is far more balanced then Carolina's.

I think its pretty close.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Who were you referring to in your earlier post that had consistently has scored 20/40? I assumed Lindholm.

Flames only win this trade if Hanifin and Lindholm improve form where they are today. It is an OK bet to make IMO. But let's not inflate their accomplishments for the sake of defending the deal.

Not necessarily true. Its also possible that Hamilton and ferland take steps backwards and fox amounts to a disappointment/doesn't sign.

I'd be unsurprised if Ferland and Hamilton both regress next year given the downgrade in linemates.

[Dan403]

Flames gain:

Hanafin
- At the same place Dougie was when Dougie was acquired

Lindholm
- Better at face-offs than any Calgary player
- 2nd line center OR 1st line right wing.
- Given that he’s a playmaker, having him on the first line probably means that Monahan and Johnny with have higher goal totals. (synergy)
- Playing with Johnny should increase Lindholm’s point total, even if he has a weak shot. Johnny makes anyone play better.

Dougie’s bad penalties are gone

Dougie’s “issues” whatever they may be are gone

Ferland’s concussion worries are gone

Flames get younger

Flames have more ‘contract control’ (Ferland is UFA next season, Dougie is UFA in 3 years)

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Who were you referring to in your earlier post that had consistently has scored 20/40? I assumed Lindholm.

Right. I see that now. My point was that Lindholm has been a consistent 40-point player regardless of his linemates while Ferland's production looks very much dependent upon his placement on the top line. Besides, Lindholm's career high in goals is 17—three fewer than Ferland; how much of a stretch is out to think he will improve by +3 goals with regular time alongside Gaudreau + Monahan?

[Otto-matic]

I really wonder now if Dougie & Brodie clashed over losing his top spot to Hamilton. It seems like since Hamilton came to Calgary that was when Brodie started to decline.