2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If we get into a situation where we’re trading Tanev, Lindholm, and Markstrom

…I’d be fine with extending Hanifin.

If the dollar figure is right I'd be fine with extending Lindholm too. With the rumoured costs of keeping Hanifin and/or Lindholm, I don't want either.

[jg13]

Package Markstrom + Hanifin to NJ and get a haul.

[dammage79]

Telling ya, if the Flames do a deal with NJ, Mike McLeod is coming over in it.

Only thing that made me think of McLeod is how Connt talked about the teams overall center depth. And how hard the position is.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Telling ya, if the Flames do a deal with NJ, Mike McLeod is coming over in it.

Only thing that made me think of McLeod is how Connt talked about the teams overall center depth. And how hard the position is.

Hopefully as a throw in and not as a major piece

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I wouldn't expect any player on a team's active roster as part of the return on any trade, unless it is a cap-heavy player who is under-performing. Occasionally you can get a young player that was promising, but seems to be struggling (like Kakko, for instance?).



There are 'hockey trades' to be had, but I am not sure that's what Conroy is trying to accomplish. After listening to everything, the one thing I have realized is that I do believe when he says: "Rebuild", what he means is the scorched-earth variety, whereas I think I use the word rebuild, and it is more congruent to his usage of retool. I believe players like Mercer would of course fit the bill for Conroy, but I can't imagine the Devils being keen on including him (or any productive player on the active roster) as part of the return.


The point of acquiring a player like Markstrom or Hanifin (or both) from Calgary would be to fill holes, not exchange one hole for another.



In one of his interviews, Conroy specifically mentioned that he wants to get things, done, but teams want to include a heavy cap player, and that it doesn't make sense for the Flames. Gee... I wonder who it can be? My guess is New Jersey trying to throw Palat into the mix. Signed through the 26/27 season, at 6 million per season, and 32 years old (turning 33 in 2 months). This player does not fit the Flames. He would be 12th in points and 3rd in cap hit on the Flames - and again, 3 more seasons to go after this one.



New Jersey:
Markstrom


Calgary
1st
2nd
Palat


Who says no?


Conroy says no all day long. I am betting that is the 'bones' for a trade with New Jersey, or at least guessing at one with Markstrom being the target by them. To be clear, their salaries are a complete wash at 6 million per year, Palat's deal runs one year longer. Just a guess on my part anyway.

Probably Palat with his NMC

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

They might. They have one of the easiest schedules the rest of the way and they've already banked up enough points to go .500 through the first half. It's entirely possible.

Either way it feels a lot like a repeat of last year, when they missed the playoffs by two points and picked 16th.

The 17th place team is on pace for 94 points. In order for the Flames to match that they would have to go 26-14-1 in the second half (a 106 point pace). Not sure I would put that in the category of “entirely possible”.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I wouldn't expect any player on a team's active roster as part of the return on any trade, unless it is a cap-heavy player who is under-performing. Occasionally you can get a young player that was promising, but seems to be struggling (like Kakko, for instance?).



There are 'hockey trades' to be had, but I am not sure that's what Conroy is trying to accomplish. After listening to everything, the one thing I have realized is that I do believe when he says: "Rebuild", what he means is the scorched-earth variety, whereas I think I use the word rebuild, and it is more congruent to his usage of retool. I believe players like Mercer would of course fit the bill for Conroy, but I can't imagine the Devils being keen on including him (or any productive player on the active roster) as part of the return.


The point of acquiring a player like Markstrom or Hanifin (or both) from Calgary would be to fill holes, not exchange one hole for another.



In one of his interviews, Conroy specifically mentioned that he wants to get things, done, but teams want to include a heavy cap player, and that it doesn't make sense for the Flames. Gee... I wonder who it can be? My guess is New Jersey trying to throw Palat into the mix. Signed through the 26/27 season, at 6 million per season, and 32 years old (turning 33 in 2 months). This player does not fit the Flames. He would be 12th in points and 3rd in cap hit on the Flames - and again, 3 more seasons to go after this one.



New Jersey:
Markstrom


Calgary
1st
2nd
Palat


Who says no?


Conroy says no all day long. I am betting that is the 'bones' for a trade with New Jersey, or at least guessing at one with Markstrom being the target by them. To be clear, their salaries are a complete wash at 6 million per year, Palat's deal runs one year longer. Just a guess on my part anyway.

Conroy and the Flames better say no. That is awful. Palat is a cap dump at this point with negative value.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Everyone talks about short rebuilds

But the moment real examples are brought up, it's nothing but excuses

I don't mind talking about Detroit, and their underwhelming drafting, an area which the Flames have done very well in lately.

How many of the last Cup winners have been on the backs of top picks obtained as a result of a rebuild?

VGK - 2023

Expansion team, no rebuild

COL - 2022

• Rebuild Years: 2009-17
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: 2009-10, 2013-14.
• Top 10 picks and assets: Makar(4), Jost(10), Rantanen(10), MacKinnon(1), Landeskog(2), Duchene(3)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2014(23- Bleackley), 2012(traded), 2011(11- Siemens), 2010(17-Hishon)

TBL - 2021, 2020

• Rebuild Years: 2007-2013
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: 2010-11
• Top 10 picks and assets: Drouin(3), Connolly(6), Hedman(2), Stamkos(1)
• Top 10 busts: Koekkoek(10)
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2011(27-Namestnikov), 2009(29- Ashton)

STL - 2019

• Rebuild Years: 2005-08; Murky middle: 09-11
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: 2008-09
• Top 10 picks and assets: Pietrangelo(4), E. Johnson(1), 9th overall(Couture) in 2007 traded down to 13(Eller)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2010(14-Schwartz ; 16-Tarasenko), 2009(17-Rundblad), 2007(13-Eller ; 18-I. Cole ; 26-Perron), 2006(25-Berglund), 2005(24-Oshie *lockout)

WSH - 2018

• Rebuild Years: 2003-07
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: N/A
• Top 10 picks and assets: Alzner(5), Backstrom(4), Ovechkin(1)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2006(23-Varlamov), 2005(14-Pokulok ; 27-Finley), 2004(27-Schultz ; 29-Green)

PIT - 2017, 2016, 2009

• Rebuild Years: 2001-2006
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: N/A
• Top 10 picks and assets: J. Staal(2), Crosby(1), Malkin(2), Fleury(1), Whitney(5)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: N/A

CHI - 2015, 2013, 2010

• Rebuild Years: 1997-2008
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: 2001-02
• Top 10 picks and assets: Kane(1), Toews(3), Ruutu(9), M. Bell(8)
• Top 10 busts: Skille(7), Barker(3), Yakubov(10)
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2008(11-Beach), 2003(14-Seabrook), 2002(21-Babchuk), 2000(11-Vorobiev), 1999(23-McCarthy)

LAK - 2014, 2012

• Rebuild Years: 2002-09
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: N/A
• Top 10 picks and assets: B. Schenn(5), Doughty(2), Hickey(4)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2008(13-Teubert), 2006(11-Bernier ; 17-Lewis), 2005(11-Kopitar), 2004(11-Tukonen), 2003(13-Brown ; 26-Boyle ; 27-Tambellini)

BOS - 2011

• Retool Years: 05-07, most of their best work was done with 2nd round picks. Boston also switched between being bad and the murky middle from the mid 90s(Thorton) and the early 2000s.
• Top 10 picks and assets: Kessel(5)
• Top 10 busts: Hamill(8)
• First rounders outside the top 10: N/A

Boston seems like the only exception, with Vegas being a special case. That said, Boston still had 2 2nd round picks in 2003, 04, and 06, which helped them draft a large chunk of their core.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Conroy and the Flames better say no. That is awful. Palat is a cap dump at this point with negative value.

So is Markstrom, and we get the picks.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

So is Markstrom, and we get the picks.

How can you possibly still be saying this?

Did he run over your dog?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I don't mind talking about Detroit, and their underwhelming drafting, an area which the Flames have done very well in lately.

How many of the last Cup winners have been on the backs of top picks obtained as a result of a rebuild?

VGK - 2023

Expansion team, no rebuild

COL - 2022

• Rebuild Years: 2009-17
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: 2009-10, 2013-14.
• Top 10 picks and assets: Makar(4), Jost(10), Rantanen(10), MacKinnon(1), Landeskog(2), Duchene(3)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2014(23- Bleackley), 2012(traded), 2011(11- Siemens), 2010(17-Hishon)

TBL - 2021, 2020

• Rebuild Years: 2007-2013
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: 2010-11
• Top 10 picks and assets: Drouin(3), Connolly(6), Hedman(2), Stamkos(1)
• Top 10 busts: Koekkoek(10)
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2011(27-Namestnikov), 2009(29- Ashton)

STL - 2019

• Rebuild Years: 2005-08; Murky middle: 09-11
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: 2008-09
• Top 10 picks and assets: Pietrangelo(4), E. Johnson(1), 9th overall(Couture) in 2007 traded down to 13(Eller)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2010(14-Schwartz ; 16-Tarasenko), 2009(17-Rundblad), 2007(13-Eller ; 18-I. Cole ; 26-Perron), 2006(25-Berglund), 2005(24-Oshie *lockout)

WSH - 2018

• Rebuild Years: 2003-07
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: N/A
• Top 10 picks and assets: Alzner(5), Backstrom(4), Ovechkin(1)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2006(23-Varlamov), 2005(14-Pokulok ; 27-Finley), 2004(27-Schultz ; 29-Green)

PIT - 2017, 2016, 2009

• Rebuild Years: 2001-2006
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: N/A
• Top 10 picks and assets: J. Staal(2), Crosby(1), Malkin(2), Fleury(1), Whitney(5)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: N/A

CHI - 2015, 2013, 2010

• Rebuild Years: 1997-2008
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: 2001-02
• Top 10 picks and assets: Kane(1), Toews(3), Ruutu(9), M. Bell(8)
• Top 10 busts: Skille(7), Barker(3), Yakubov(10)
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2008(11-Beach), 2003(14-Seabrook), 2002(21-Babchuk), 2000(11-Vorobiev), 1999(23-McCarthy)

LAK - 2014, 2012

• Rebuild Years: 2002-09
• Made the playoffs mid-rebuild: N/A
• Top 10 picks and assets: B. Schenn(5), Doughty(2), Hickey(4)
• Top 10 busts: N/A
• First rounders outside the top 10: 2008(13-Teubert), 2006(11-Bernier ; 17-Lewis), 2005(11-Kopitar), 2004(11-Tukonen), 2003(13-Brown ; 26-Boyle ; 27-Tambellini)

BOS - 2011

• Retool Years: 05-07, most of their best work was done with 2nd round picks. Boston also switched between being bad and the murky middle from the mid 90s(Thorton) and the early 2000s.
• Top 10 picks and assets: Kessel(5)
• Top 10 busts: Hamill(8)
• First rounders outside the top 10: N/A

Boston seems like the only exception, with Vegas being a special case. That said, Boston still had 2 2nd round picks in 2003, 04, and 06, which helped them draft a large chunk of their core.

They all have some type of high picks and rebuild...but part of that is because literally every team in the league (except Vegas) has had at least one top 5 pick in the last 20 years.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The thing with the whole "you need top 5 picks to win" argument is that every team in the league has top 5 picks. Some have had success, some have not. Just picking early doesn't guarantee anything.

The key overall is drafting well, maximizing your assets, and generally trying to build a strong team in a continual fashion. None of this idea of "going all in" for a single run mindset, you need to build a consistent pipeline and continually add to the core. Tampa, Colorado, and Washington all won the cup 10+ years after making their first top 5 pick.

Look at the teams that have made top 5 picks going back to 2003 (the start of the Pittsburgh re-build and the salary cap era), and the volume of top 5 picks they have made. Cup winners bolded.

Carolina, Edmonton, Columbus: 6
Chicago, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Florida, Islanders, Arizona, Los Angeles, Colorado, New Jersey: 5
Montreal, Toronto: 4
Ottawa, Winnipeg, Philadelphia, Washington, Anaheim, Tampa Bay: 3
Seattle, Boston, Vancouver, Rangers, St Louis: 2
Calgary, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, Detroit, San Jose: 1
Vegas: 0

It's the best path to winning, but also a bit skewed becasue pretty much every team has done it. Lots of teams have rebuilt and have lots of high picks with almost no success too.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Wings have been out of the playoffs since 2017, but they didn’t start rebuilding until 2019. Like a lot of teams, they were dragged kicking and screaming into a rebuild, and so were a bad team for years before they bit the bullet.

They traded Smith, Jurco Ott and Vanek in 2017 for a former 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, three 3rd round picks and a 6th round pick

They traded Tatar for a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd in February of 2018.

Pretty sure trading all your vets for picks is rebuilding so I would consider 2017 their starting point for their rebuild.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

So is Markstrom, and we get the picks.

if you have to take Palat back you hang up the phone. Are you saying Markstrom is worth a late 2nd? Because the extra year of 36 old Palat at $6MM is worth a 1st+

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

if you have to take Palat back you hang up the phone. Are you saying Markstrom is worth a late 2nd? Because the extra year of 36 old Palat at $6MM is worth a 1st+

I’d take a second over palat and a 1st

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

They traded Smith, Jurco Ott and Vanek in 2017 for a former 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, three 3rd round picks and a 6th round pick

They traded Tatar for a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd in February of 2018.

Pretty sure trading all your vets for picks is rebuilding so I would consider 2017 their starting point for their rebuild.

Right you are. I stand corrected.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I’d take a second over palat and a 1st

If he can only get a 2nd, it isn’t worth moving Markstrom. Move Vladar and keep Markstrom as a reliable veteran as Wolf develops.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I don't see any teams giving up their top prospects for UFAs. I think the expectations should be reigned in and look at some lesser prospects, but decent ones all the same. Here are some trades I would think could be worked out.

For Lindholm I think the best fit is Colorado.

To CGY
Oskar Olausson (RW - 2021 1st)
Jean-Luc Foudy (C - 2020 3rd)
2024 2nd round pick or 2024 1st round pick with retention
To COL
Elias Lindholm ($2,425,000 possible retention)

Best fit for Hanifin appears to be New Jersey.

CGY
Nolan Foote (LW - 2019 1st)
Lenni Hameenaho (RW - 2023 2nd)
Conditional 2025 1st round pick (Hanifin extension) or 2025 3rd (Hanifin unsigned)
NJD
Noah Hanifin

Where to send Markstrom is tough. I think Edmonton is desperate enough to swing a deal where they overpay for Markstrom, especially if we take back Campbell and his hit.

CGY
Philip Broberg (D - 2019 1st)
Jack Campbell (G)
2024 1st round pick
2025 1st round pick (if retention)
EDM
Jakob Markstrom ($2,000,000 if retention)

Trading Tanev is interesting. I think the Rangers could use him and might be inclined to make a solid deal for him. The other alternative is Toronto who has been sniffing around for a while.

CGY
Adam Sykora (LW - 2022 2nd)
2024 4th round pick
NYR
Christopher Tanev ($2,250,000 retained)

or

CGY
Fraser Minten (C - 2022 2nd)
2024 3rd round pick
TOR
Christopher Tanev ($2,250,000 retained)

While these deals may not be "sexy" they do recoup some good B level prospects that still have decent potential. Like I said, I doubt we're going to see any top end prospects moved so make the best of the next tier and hope a couple of them pop.

[bluejays]

There is not one person over 25 they should consider untouchable if it means getting a good return. Sign some other vets to be mentors to talk to young guys when the time is right. Maximize the return to draft well and tank in the meantime. Philosophically it's so simple and makes sense. The hard part is negotiating to get the most out of each team you're dealing with. No loyalty, just blow it all up for those picks.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I don't see any teams giving up their top prospects for UFAs. I think the expectations should be reigned in and look at some lesser prospects, but decent ones all the same. Here are some trades I would think could be worked out.

For Lindholm I think the best fit is Colorado.

To CGY
Oskar Olausson (RW - 2021 1st)
Jean-Luc Foudy (C - 2020 3rd)
2024 2nd round pick or 2024 1st round pick with retention
To COL
Elias Lindholm ($2,425,000 possible retention)

Best fit for Hanifin appears to be New Jersey.

CGY
Nolan Foote (LW - 2019 1st)
Lenni Hameenaho (RW - 2023 2nd)
Conditional 2025 1st round pick (Hanifin extension) or 2025 3rd (Hanifin unsigned)
NJD
Noah Hanifin

Where to send Markstrom is tough. I think Edmonton is desperate enough to swing a deal where they overpay for Markstrom, especially if we take back Campbell and his hit.

CGY
Philip Broberg (D - 2019 1st)
Jack Campbell (G)
2024 1st round pick
2025 1st round pick (if retention)
EDM
Jakob Markstrom ($2,000,000 if retention)

Trading Tanev is interesting. I think the Rangers could use him and might be inclined to make a solid deal for him. The other alternative is Toronto who has been sniffing around for a while.

CGY
Adam Sykora (LW - 2022 2nd)
2024 4th round pick
NYR
Christopher Tanev ($2,250,000 retained)

or

CGY
Fraser Minten (C - 2022 2nd)
2024 3rd round pick
TOR
Christopher Tanev ($2,250,000 retained)

While these deals may not be "sexy" they do recoup some good B level prospects that still have decent potential. Like I said, I doubt we're going to see any top end prospects moved so make the best of the next tier and hope a couple of them pop.

The Edmonton proposal isn’t anywhere close with having to take back Campbell and retain $2MM. Taking Campbell alone is multiple 1sts.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I like Mercer more as he’s more proven and all around.

But Mercer is only 11th in points per 60 minutes. Holtz is 5th. So Holtz might sneakily be the better player to pick up.

Excellent post. Many Devils fans are calling for Holtz to get more ice-time and responsibility over some players above him in the lineup.