Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by wireframe

The definition of subsidy changes depending on who you ask. Some groups say that oil and gas companies is canada get more than $15b/year while CAPP says $0. It all depends on what you count as a subsidy.


Off the top of my head, the obvious subsidies are:
* tax pools for capital expenditure (COGPPE, CDE, etc.)
* government building the transmountain pipeline
* Royalty holidays, especially in heavy oil production
* research grants to develop fossil fuel technologies


This report had the highest subsidy estimate I've ever seen. You can pick and choose which of the items in here count as subsidies to you and you can be confident that you didn't miss anything. http://https://environmentaldefence....April-2021.pdf

Literally every industry can write off their capital expenditures over time, exactly the same way tax pools work. The % you can write off per year varies with the usable life of the asset. The fact that they have specified % for oil and gas assets isn't a subsidy.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I still believe if the ANDP changed their colour from orange to say a forest green, renamed to The Alberta Party or similar they’d win. I think removing the NDP federal stigma would change enough votes. The traditional NDP voters would stick with them and they’d be able to pull more progressive votes. A new leader might be needed as part of that rebranding too.

Not in the age of social media. It would been force fed on every feed that this a rebranded NDP and that's what they would be in the eyes of all voters.

[Fuzz]

Doug Ford shows Alberta that private clinics totally save the healthcare system money by paying them more. Conservative math.





https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...026926?cmp=rss

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by kermitology

No, they deserve to be prosperous. But if you can’t see the writing in the wall about the coming collapse of oil and gas, then I have no sympathy for you.

Efforts to continue to prop up that dying industry is only making your end state so much worse. Imagine the state of an APP that is heavily invested in O&G and what that would mean to Alberta citizens when APP collapses because of investment collapse?

Also, the idea that albertans would vote for Notley if they didn’t have the colour orange and the NDP name is laughable.

Alberta will always vote conservative because it’s all you know how to do.

This pretty well sums up the perspective of every person from the lower mainland and coastal island that I've run across. I think that the big takeaway is the lack of understanding of the timeline. Everything that you said is correct. Most of the people on this board are likely in their 40s, and we will all be dead and buried by the time any of that happens, though. There will be a strong demand for oil and natural gas well into the 2050s. After that I'm suspecting a quick decline if someone is able to scale fusion and hydrogen.

As for the voting conservative thing, we've already voted NDP once, and the massive influx of people in the last couple of years have no history of voting in this province. There has been a heavy demographic shift here lately.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

This pretty well sums up the perspective of every person from the lower mainland and coastal island that I've run across. I think that the big takeaway is the lack of understanding of the timeline. Everything that you said is correct. Most of the people on this board are likely in their 40s, and we will all be dead and buried by the time any of that happens, though. There will be a strong demand for oil and natural gas well into the 2050s. After that I'm suspecting a quick decline if someone is able to scale fusion and hydrogen.

As for the voting conservative thing, we've already voted NDP once, and the massive influx of people in the last couple of years have no history of voting in this province. There has been a heavy demographic shift here lately.

On the hydrogen front, I don't think it's a stretch to say that we've been hearing about this for decades. I think it's likely going to be a chunk of the solution, but this isn't a fast process. And getting something to scale is no small feat!

I wouldn't say that I'm pessimistic, just somewhat cautious on the timeline. I remember being super interested in things like the UofC competing in a solar race when I was about 10-12 years old, the Ballard fuel cells at about the same age and honestly, 30 years later we're seemingly in the same position with these technologies. I realise that behind the scenes we're not in the same position...but globally we've put huge amounts of money into these areas and the return on that is pretty paltry over that timeframe?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If they want to form the government in this province, the NDP needs lots of people who vote Conservative federally to vote NDP provincially. So yeah, denouncing them all as bigoted hicks is not a great political strategy.

Cliff with a classic disingenuous/strawman Cliff post. No one is calling every UCP voter a bigoted hick. That said, what should we call the ones who express bigoted and anti-science views, Cliff?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Not in the age of social media. It would been force fed on every feed that this a rebranded NDP and that's what they would be in the eyes of all voters.

And a complete and utter denouncement of Notley

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Cliff with a classic disingenuous/strawman Cliff post. No one is calling every UCP voter a bigoted hick. That said, what should we call the ones who express bigoted and anti-science views, Cliff?

Are you sure about that?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Are you sure about that?

They may not be bigoted hicks, but they are dumb as a sack of bricks.

Said Sam I Am.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by kermitology

No, they deserve to be prosperous. But if you can’t see the writing in the wall about the coming collapse of oil and gas, then I have no sympathy for you.

Efforts to continue to prop up that dying industry is only making your end state so much worse. Imagine the state of an APP that is heavily invested in O&G and what that would mean to Alberta citizens when APP collapses because of investment collapse?

Also, the idea that albertans would vote for Notley if they didn’t have the colour orange and the NDP name is laughable.

Alberta will always vote conservative because it’s all you know how to do.

I disagree that Oil and Gas is on the verge of Collapse, I think the Environment as we know it is nearing a critical change ( what that means for humanity is difficult to predict).

Oil and Gas is not going anywhere, and with that in mind, people should stop being so precious about policies that try to make Oil and Gas production and consumption as ethical as possible ( but slightly more difficult).

This isn't leading horses to water, this is leaving out crack for crack heads. It doesn't really matter how difficult we make it, people will make money pulling it from the ground, and people will use as much of it as they can afford.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

They may not be bigoted hicks, but they are dumb as a sack of bricks.

gullible might be more on point.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

They may not be bigoted hicks, but they are dumb as a sack of bricks.

I was going to look for one of your quotes to prove my point, but I figured if I just waited you would do it for me.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

gullible might be more on point.

I go with morons, because if you vote against your own best interests, and vote for a liar and someone who breached the conflict of interest act before she was even elected, someone who ignores experts over how she's felt for 20 years, someone who lied about floor crossings to her constituents, and, I mean, on and ####ing on. It was no secret who she is, and after all that if you still think "ya, this person should be in charge of our environment, education, health, economy, and all other important aspects of our lives," well, you are a moron.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I was going to look for one of your quotes to prove my point, but I figured if I just waited you would do it for me.

Sure go find one. How many IQ points would you need to have AFTER they gave the Wildrose Rose Party and Kenny a majority government, and then to ELECT Danielle Smith and the Wildrose Rose Party again??! lol

Isn't that moronic? don't you think? It's pretty moronic.. yeah I really do think.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Sure go find one. How many IQ points would you need to have AFTER you gave the Wildrose Rose Party and Kenny a majority government, and then to ELECT Danielle Smith and the Wildrose Rose Party again??! lol

Isn't that moronic? don't you think? It's pretty moronic.. yeah I really do think.

I think you've got the wrong guy, I have only ever voted for the Green Party. I'm one of the dozens of people in my riding who don't vote conservative as a reflex.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think you've got the wrong guy, I have only ever voted for the Green Party. I'm one of the dozens of people in my riding who don't vote conservative as a reflex.

Oh i meant to say They and not You. fixed.

They as in the half the basket of deplorables.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I go with morons, because if you vote against your own best interests, and vote for a liar and someone who breached the conflict of interest act before she was even elected, someone who ignores experts over how she's felt for 20 years, someone who lied about floor crossings to her constituents, and, I mean, on and ####ing on. It was no secret who she is, and after all that if you still think "ya, this person should be in charge of our environment, education, health, economy, and all other important aspects of our lives," well, you are a moron.

I'm trying to be a gentler more caring UCB, ya ####.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think you've got the wrong guy, I have only ever voted for the Green Party. I'm one of the dozens of people in my riding who don't vote conservative as a reflex.

Green libertarianism is very much a thing

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Green libertarianism is very much a thing

I am not sure what that means exactly. But if it means being allowed to shoot litterers on sight, I might be that.

[rubecube]

Well it appears I stand corrected. Sorry, Cliff. I'm still not gonna stop calling out the actual bigots though.