The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[afc wimbledon]

Glendale and the NHL would argue the opposite.

Parking rights were assigned in the original MUDA - Mixed Use Development Agreement - to originally build up the area, dated 2001 and transferred from Larry Elman to Jerry Moyes in 2006. The document is here:

http://docs.bmcgroup.com/phoenixcoyo...488_1159_2.pdf

Parking rights in this case have no term and do not die with an arena lease, therefore did not die with the lease in bankruptcy court.

Not being a lawyer I can't be sure, but this document seems to pertain to parking naming and advertising rights and, at one section clearly states the city agrees to make portions of the parking lot available for the other party to put up signage etc as long as the other party makes equivalent parking spaces available.

It doesn't appear to transfer the parking revenue rights (essentially the ownership of the parking lots) over at all, which is probably GI's argeument.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by flambers

Of course Flames fans will hate the Jets... I remember really hating them back in the day.

However its a good thing for fans to have teams they hate....
Will make the games fun to watch.

I so agree I miss hating the Jets back in the 80's no one hated the Nucks, they were so bad nobody cared about them, they were just the team with the god awful ugly jerseys. It was the Oilers and Jets that got under Flames skin, I miss those days. The only thing that sucks is from sources out of Winnipeg the new team would be called the Manitoba Moose.

[oldschoolcalgary]

thanks Cowperson-

that's' a lot of research you've done...its a complicated situation to be sure, so commenting on the legalities is above my pay grade.

That said, I still don't know how anyone can possibly think that Phoenix is a viable location for a franchise considering how much time they have had to make it work and the seeming apathy of the fans there...

the value of the parking and operations/management of the arena are a point of contention, but Hulsizer can end this right now if he ponied up the cash.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I suspect you're confused because of some reading comprehension issue. I didn't say "lots of Calgary fans hate the Jets".

I wrote "if Winnipeg succeeds in getting a club, most posters on this forum are going to hate the Jets".

Can you understand the difference?

So right now some people just have a hate on for Winnipeg for no good reason but as soon as the jets come back they will hate the Jets?

That's BS. As I said some people in this thread obviously aren't sure if Winterpeg is a legitimate option. Others just hate Winnipeg and/or the Jets. Some I'm sure because they are old rivals and others because they think Win is a poor man's edmonton.

If you think a ton of people have the best intentions for Winnipeg but don't think it is a viable hockey market and will soon just all of a sudden hate the Jets you're mistaken.

It'll be a good rivalry I'm sure, and in time they will be a strong rival with the Flames.

However, your original statement was that people don't hate the Jets right now, they just don't like Winnipeg or think NHL will succeed there. I'd say a good portion of the people in this thread already hate the Jets and that is why they are hating on the Jets coming back.

Only a select few actually want NHL hockey in Wpg but just don't think it'll work.

So my reading comprehension is just fine, you just don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So my reading comprehension is just fine, you just don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Actually; I would say you are not picking up what he is putting down.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Actually; I would say you are not picking up what he is putting down.

He's claiming that any and all Winnipeg hate in this thread is just a bunch of level headed posters who have concerns about the NHL's viability in Winnipeg.

That is totally wrong.

Some posters fit that description but others in this thread just hate Winnipeg. No different the way some posters bash Vancouver because of the Canucks and Edmonton because of the Oilers.

To try and mislead people into thinking it is unbiased opinions that are based solely on fact of the situation is completely wrong.

He said

there isn't a whole lot of anti-winnipeg sentiment. Just many posters who have a more realistic perspective of the obstacles a team operating in Winnipeg would face.

I'm calling BS on that. There is plenty of anti-winnipeg sentiment. I'm not saying it is overwhelming but it is there in this thread anyone who says it doesn't exist doesn't know what they are talking about.

I'd say this thread is split 50/50 among the "Winnipeg won't work" crowd. 50% have legit reasons, many of which I agree with, and the other 50% are people who just hate Winnipeg and think it is Edmonton 2.0 in terms of being a crime ridden dump and a terrible cold, lifeless city.

And even then I'd say the entire thread is probably 35/65 in terms of for and against repectively. Of that 65% it is half and half for legit and just plain hate.

[underGRADFlame]

I think 100% of the posters in this thread would just love to see some sort of resolution to the issue, one way or the other.

[troutman]

Catching up on news from long weekend . . .

Phoenix Coyotes meeting ends with no resolution
http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...r-meeting.html

Transcript of Goldwater-Glendale meeting

"The meeting was disappointing from our perspective," said Clint Bolick, Goldwater's litigation director. "The mayor asked for our concerns and our ideas and we provided a number of concerns and ideas. The city did not seem to be open to the ideas we suggested and the city attorney repeatedly told us he would see us in court."

Hulsizer leaves Coyotes meeting early
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spe...120428094.html

"They didn’t want to hear what we had to say," Goldwater litigator Nick Dranias told the Free Press. "Whenever the mayor (Elaine Scruggs) didn’t want to answer a question their reply was, ‘go tell it to the judge.’ They were evasive and obfuscative or refused to answer questions."

Scruggs told the assembled media she believed there was no merit to Goldwater’s objections or threat of a suit.

"We move forward," said Scruggs, who also stated the NHL needed to decide if they wanted to sell the team and Hulsizer needed to determine if he wanted to buy the team.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Glendale City Council meeting tonight, no Coyotes business on the agenda. If they were planning to dip into this fund, it would be on tonight's agenda.

[troutman]

http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pdf/0421...ng-minutes.pdf

MS. RHOADES: Those are delicious Tammie
17 Coe cupcakes.

18 MAYOR SCRUGGS: Yeah, they'll probably
19 act all polite and whatever and not take one.
20 So what are these flavors?

21 MS. RHOADES: So you have -- the ones
22 with the kind of pastel-colored frosting are
23 ooey-gooey; my personal favorite from Tammie Coe -- the
24 red velvet cupcakes, and I think the other ones
25 are coconut


MS. OLSEN: Exactly, exactly.
14 We're also concerned about the management
15 fee arrangement that you have, that that agreement --
16 the original management contract paid the Coyotes'
17 manager only $500,000 a year, and the manager remained
18 responsible for all the capital maintenance costs.
19 Paying a buyer 97 million over five years to manage the
20 Arena, in addition to having the City pick up capital
21 maintenance costs, seems a bit discordant

MR. BOLICK: And last, but not least, we
5 understand that the Tohono O'odham Nation is interested
6 in helping privately fund the purchase of the Coyotes.

MAYOR SCRUGGS: I would like to talk
5 about partnering with the Tohono O'odham Nation. They
6 have attached a condition to their partnering. That
7 condition is that the City of Glendale drops its
8 lawsuit. That could be considered blackmail, couldn't
9 it, by some?

MS. OLSEN: Craig, I think you could use
4 another cupcake.

MAYOR SCRUGGS:
15 I know I make you -- I amuse you,
16 don't I? You have such a look on -- every time
17 I speak, you look at me like I'm -- you just hate me.

MR. BOLICK: Mayor, if the deal is not
8 changed, yes, we have concluded, based on the documents
9 that we have, that it is illegal, and we will sue.
10 That's exactly what we said.
11 We hope that the deal will be changed.

12 MS. SITREN: And to clarify, we
13 understand that there are still other documents out
14 there, so we don't know what those documents are, what
15 they could say, and, certainly, they could potentially
16 affect our analysis.

[automaton 3]

If the City of Glendale is so certain of their position, I wonder why they haven't brought an application for a declaration that the deal doesn't violate the gift clause? I'm not at all familiar with the particularities of Arizona law, is there perhaps some procedural differences that don't allow for this?

It seems like a logical move to break the current impasse...unless the City really isn't so sure and Plan "A" is to attempt to posture and bluster their way through.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Glendale City Council meeting tonight, no Coyotes business on the agenda. If they were planning to dip into this fund, it would be on tonight's agenda.

They can call an emergency meeting on 24 hours notice. That's what they did when they voted on the $25 million last May.

[topfiverecords]

Oh no, please don't turn into another thread about cupcakes.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

If the City of Glendale is so certain of their position, I wonder why they haven't brought an application for a declaration that the deal doesn't violate the gift clause? I'm not at all familiar with the particularities of Arizona law, is there perhaps some procedural differences that don't allow for this?

It seems like a logical move to break the current impasse...unless the City really isn't so sure and Plan "A" is to attempt to posture and bluster their way through.

According to previous mentions in the thread, American courts apparently don't rule on hypotheticals. Whether or not they are certain, we won't know the legal standing unless Goldwater actually brings suit.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by calgaryred

I so agree I miss hating the Jets back in the 80's no one hated the Nucks, they were so bad nobody cared about them, they were just the team with the god awful ugly jerseys. It was the Oilers and Jets that got under Flames skin, I miss those days. The only thing that sucks is from sources out of Winnipeg the new team would be called the Manitoba Moose.

As a big fan of the Jets I hope that would be not the case, there is one thing that Manitoba does well and that is it never fails to suprise me on the level of their incompetence.

The only thing that wouldn't suprise me would be calling themselves Roughriders.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

They can call an emergency meeting on 24 hours notice. That's what they did when they voted on the $25 million last May.

Of course they can, but why would they when they have a regular meeting today. If the countdown clock is really on its' final legs, you would think they would put something together. I'm almost ready for a pube bet it ends this week.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

According to previous mentions in the thread, American courts apparently don't rule on hypotheticals. Whether or not they are certain, we won't know the legal standing unless Goldwater actually brings suit.

Thanks, it seemed way too easy a solution for something that has dragged on pretty much forever!

[Northendzone]

i was interested in hearing more about the cupcakes so i googled them and found out that they cost $67.50 each, and the company is owned by the city of glendale.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i was interested in hearing more about the cupcakes so i googled them and found out that they cost $67.50 each, and the company is owned by the city of glendale.

Did they have to pay for parking while picking up the cupcakes?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by troutman

http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pdf/0421...ng-minutes.pdf

MS. RHOADES: Those are delicious Tammie
17 Coe cupcakes.

18 MAYOR SCRUGGS: Yeah, they'll probably
19 act all polite and whatever and not take one.
20 So what are these flavors?

21 MS. RHOADES: So you have -- the ones
22 with the kind of pastel-colored frosting are
23 ooey-gooey; my personal favorite from Tammie Coe -- the
24 red velvet cupcakes, and I think the other ones
25 are coconut


MS. OLSEN: Exactly, exactly.
14 We're also concerned about the management
15 fee arrangement that you have, that that agreement --
16 the original management contract paid the Coyotes'
17 manager only $500,000 a year, and the manager remained
18 responsible for all the capital maintenance costs.
19 Paying a buyer 97 million over five years to manage the
20 Arena, in addition to having the City pick up capital
21 maintenance costs, seems a bit discordant

MR. BOLICK: And last, but not least, we
5 understand that the Tohono O'odham Nation is interested
6 in helping privately fund the purchase of the Coyotes.

MAYOR SCRUGGS: I would like to talk
5 about partnering with the Tohono O'odham Nation. They
6 have attached a condition to their partnering. That
7 condition is that the City of Glendale drops its
8 lawsuit. That could be considered blackmail, couldn't
9 it, by some?

MS. OLSEN: Craig, I think you could use
4 another cupcake.

MAYOR SCRUGGS:
15 I know I make you -- I amuse you,
16 don't I? You have such a look on -- every time
17 I speak, you look at me like I'm -- you just hate me.

MR. BOLICK: Mayor, if the deal is not
8 changed, yes, we have concluded, based on the documents
9 that we have, that it is illegal, and we will sue.
10 That's exactly what we said.
11 We hope that the deal will be changed.

12 MS. SITREN: And to clarify, we
13 understand that there are still other documents out
14 there, so we don't know what those documents are, what
15 they could say, and, certainly, they could potentially
16 affect our analysis.

Took me a while to realize these were the real transcripts, at first I thought they were a joke, then looked at the 113 pages of rubbish and realized that Glendale is just run by ######s and so most of what they say just sounds like a joke. When you see it writen down it becomes pretty clear why the Goldwater Institute exists, this appears to be about the most incompatent council I've ever seen, and that includes the Juice monkey Mayor in Port Coquitlam that was beating his girlfriend up in Golds Gym.