2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And they might pick 1st.

They are currently 24th in the league, despite excellent goaltending from Markstrom. And they are going to trade 1 or 2 of their top 4 defensemen, and their best C.

Is it more likely that they move up, or move down in the standings, in the 2nd half?

Until Pelts comes up and scores at a 40 goal pace

[SuperMatt18]

Personally I actually don't like the Chicago / San Jose / Buffalo model of going full scorched earth.

What frustrates me is the Flames always try to salvage the bad seasons, instead of leaning into the bad years and getting the high pick.

The bubble year is the best example of this...you had no fans and a weird schedule anyways, Markstrom got hurt, just ride it out with Ward and lean into sucking and get a higher pick. Coronato is great, but a top 5 pick that year would have been amazing.

Lean into the bad years and get high picks without having to go scorched earth and you get the best of both worlds - it's kind of how Tampa got Stamkos and Hedman and Colorado got Mackinnon.

[ComixZone]

The point that hits me in that article is Conroy being so matter of fact in accepting that we just won’t get top talent from the top of the draft.

The Flames operate a certain way, and always have, and they seem very accepting of their poor results from that style of operation. That’s frustrating. It’s frustrating to be a fan of a team that doesn’t want to put in the work (and it is work) to draft a Sidney Crosby, Victor Hedman, Nathan Mackinnon, Steven Stamkos, or Jack Eichel.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Personally I actually don't like the Chicago / San Jose / Buffalo model of going full scorched earth.

What frustrates me is the Flames always try to salvage the bad seasons, instead of leaning into the bad years and getting the high pick. The bubble year is the best example of this...you had no fans and a weird schedule anyways, just lean into sucking and get a higher pick.

Lean into the bad years and get high picks without having to go scorched earth and you get the best of both worlds - it's kind of how Tampa got Stamkos and Hedman.

Agreed. If you look at this season specifically - that interview still has Conroy talking about being close to a wild card spot like that’s a difficult thing to do. It’s not hard to be a bubble team, and it’s not what the goal should be.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The point that hits me in that article is Conroy being so matter of fact in accepting that we just won’t get top talent from the top of the draft.

The Flames operate a certain way, and always have, and they seem very accepting of their poor results from that style of operation. That’s frustrating. It’s frustrating to be a fan of a team that doesn’t want to put in the work (and it is work) to draft a Sidney Crosby, Victor Hedman, Nathan Mackinnon, Steven Stamkos, or Jack Eichel.

I don't think that's really that surprising TBH - teams rarely would publically say "we plan to suck and draft top 5" very few GMs are going to publicly say that.

Tampa didn't plan to draft top 3 and get Hedman or Stamkos.

Colorado didn't plan to draft Mackinnon.

The thing those teams did well is if they were bad after 30 games they would go "okay let's do what we can do to get a higher pick" where as the Flames go "How do we try to sneak into the playoffs". And are playing guys hurt to try to achieve that goal instead of shutting them down.

Part of me actually thinks Conroy would actually have liked to do that this year if you asked him off the record...and based on his interview sounds like he would have liked to move at least some of these guys already...but the cap situation across the league has made it almost impossible.

[Muta]

We need superstar-level talent. Most proven way to do that is to draft high and draft smart. This isn't rocket science.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Personally I actually don't like the Chicago / San Jose / Buffalo model of going full scorched earth.

What frustrates me is the Flames always try to salvage the bad seasons, instead of leaning into the bad years and getting the high pick.

The bubble year is the best example of this...you had no fans and a weird schedule anyways, just lean into sucking and get a higher pick. Coronato is great, but a top 5 pick that year would have been amazing.

Lean into the bad years and get high picks without having to go scorched earth and you get the best of both worlds - it's kind of how Tampa got Stamkos and Hedman.

100%

I agree with Conroy about not wanting a culture of losing, and always pushing to compete. But some seasons, things fall apart. When that happens - go with it! Move out some guys, clean the cupboards, get some extra picks, and a higher pick for yourselves, and then get back to being competitive in the fall.

You CAN tear down a single season, without embracing losing.

[traptor]

Here's top drafted picks that are active on their team of some pf the top contenders in our conference.

-Players are active on the team that drafted them

-No traded players included

LA Kings:

2021 8th OA Clarke

2020 2nd OA Byfield

2019 5th OA Turcotte

2008 2nd OA Doughty

2005 1th OA Kopitar



Colorado Avalanche:

2019 4th OA Byram

2017 4th OA Makar

2015 10th OA Rantanen

2013 1st OA Mackinnon

2011 2nd OA Landeskog


Dallas Stars:

2017 3rd OA Heiskanen


Vancouver Canucks:

2019 10th OA Podkolzin

2018 7th OA Hughes

2017 5th OA Petterson



Edmonton Oilers:

2018 10th OA Bouchard

2015 1st OA McDavid

2014 3rd OA Draisaitl

2013 7th OA Nurse

2011 1st OA RNH



Winnipeg Jets:

2020 10th OA Perfetti

2014 9th OA Ehlers

2013 13th OA Morrissey

2011 7th OA Scheifele



Calgary Flames:





The Stars are the exception but they still bottomed out recently and got Heskenen. They also got extremely lucky and hit it out of the park with Hintz, Robertson and Ottenger.

I'm not saying we need to full on tank. But we do need to get some top picks. Event he teams people use as examples of not full tanking still bottomed out for a season or two recently.

I hope Conroy is playing chess and not checkers and trying to indirectly rebuild. He wants the team to get younger. Good. A younger team will probably be a worse team short term.

[Ashasx]

It bewilders me that the Flames are still so concerned about creating a culture of losing if they pick top 3 in the draft a couple times (despite never having picked top 3 in franchise history), while at the same time having only two playoff series wins over the last 19 years.

Let's just try something different.

[Enoch Root]

The Flames drafted 6, 4 and 6 during that time as well - not really any different than VAN or WPG.

All that says is that LAK, COL and EDM did rebuilds, and DAL, VAN and WPG didn't

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It bewilders me that the Flames are still so concerned about creating a culture of losing if they pick top 3 in the draft a couple times (despite never having picked top 3 in franchise history), while at the same time having only two playoff series wins over the last 19 years.

Let's just try something different.

Absolutely. The culture of losing is already here. It's damn near the identity of this organization on the ice.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Flames drafted 6, 4 and 6 during that time as well - not really any different than VAN or WPG.

All that says is that LAK, COL and EDM did rebuilds, and DAL, VAN and WPG didn't

and the Flames failed to retain or develop correctly any of the talent that they drafted in those 6, 4, and 6 spots. You can't ignore that. The team failed in the handling of those picks.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It bewilders me that the Flames are still so concerned about creating a culture of losing if they pick top 3 in the draft a couple times (despite never having picked top 3 in franchise history), while at the same time having only two playoff series wins over the last 19 years.

Let's just try something different.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Absolutely. The culture of losing is already here. It's damn near the identity of this organization on the ice.

No, BUF, ARI and OTT have cultures of losing.

The Flames just don't have enough good players. There is a difference. And Conroy has a good point. You guys just disagree with anything that isn't 'tear it down to the ground'.

[Monahammer]

How can anyone say with a straight face that this club has a culture of winning? We've won only once, more than 30 years ago. We have the ultimate culture of mediocrity, and in my book that makes us losers.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, BUF, ARI and OTT have cultures of losing.

The Flames just don't have enough good players. There is a difference. And Conroy has a good point. You guys just disagree with anything that isn't 'tear it down to the ground'.

If you only have two playoff round victories in 19 years, you have a losing culture because all you've done is lose.

Lose by an inch, or a mile - losing's losing.



I don't disagree with anything that isn't 'tear it down to the ground'. I look at where this team is, and then I listen to the organization talk about their team and have pretty easily come to the conclusion that they are poor at assessing their own capabilities - and I'd love for them to change their approach in a significant way. I'm not sitting here clamouring for the Flames to trade away an Alex Debrincat type player in an effort to tank for a top player in any one draft. I want the Flames to trade away veteran players who aren't signed or who won't be part of the long term solution here. I'm not championing the trading of Mackenzie Weegar or Connor Zary. I'm not even screaming for them to trade Kadri or Huberdeau.

Just stop making the situation worse. Rely on young players (sub-25 in age). Don't add to the long-term deals that we already have on the books at this stage. Use what long term deals we do have to help develop the younger talent coming. Through this sort of process the Flames will naturally draft close to the top and give meaningful development to the young players they have around.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Igottago

They had massive offers on the table for Lindholm and Hanafin didn't they? I'm not having a go at Conroy, but it's a stroke of luck those guys aren't signed to long term deals right now. I think the organization has been wishy washy about the direction they want to go. Maybe its clearer to them now.

There was rumors of offers.

[traptor]

This club needs to tread very careful.

It's just one metric but I read their insta has the 3rd least amount of followers of any team (I think the sens and cbj were lower).

If this team continues to tread water in the 25-50th percentile of the league and have no apparent superstars it will be really easy for fan apathy to set in.

[Enoch Root]

You guys are looking at what he said wrong - instead of the word 'losing/winning', use the word he used: 'competing'

He said it is important to compete.

You guys are equating that with success (winning), which misses his point

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, BUF, ARI and OTT have cultures of losing.

The Flames just don't have enough good players. There is a difference. And Conroy has a good point. You guys just disagree with anything that isn't 'tear it down to the ground'.

Often I find the common theme for teams like Buffalo and Edmonton that have/had missed the playoffs for so long despite having so many top picks is bad management. You can probably add Ottawa and Arizona to that list as well, as you have noted.

I'm not asking for the team to aim for top 5 picks every year, and I'm not asking for Conroy to trade everybody for a nuclear rebuild (we already have several veterans on long term contracts that can mentor younger players).

But the goal should be making the moves and enshrining a vision that allows the Flames to be the best possible team over the longest amount of time.

Being concerned about pivoting for next season and trying to compete again (if we do proceed with a bit of a sell off) is just not the right approach and it's that short sighted vision that has plagued this franchise for 20 +years.

I'm just ready for something new. That's where I am as a fan.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Flames drafted 6, 4 and 6 during that time as well - not really any different than VAN or WPG.

All that says is that LAK, COL and EDM did rebuilds, and DAL, VAN and WPG didn't

They did but none of those guys are here anymore so it's time to hit the reset.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The point that hits me in that article is Conroy being so matter of fact in accepting that we just won’t get top talent from the top of the draft.

The Flames operate a certain way, and always have, and they seem very accepting of their poor results from that style of operation. That’s frustrating. It’s frustrating to be a fan of a team that doesn’t want to put in the work (and it is work) to draft a Sidney Crosby, Victor Hedman, Nathan Mackinnon, Steven Stamkos, or Jack Eichel.



Agreed. If you look at this season specifically - that interview still has Conroy talking about being close to a wild card spot like that’s a difficult thing to do. It’s not hard to be a bubble team, and it’s not what the goal should be.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your point overall, but the bolded is just ridiculous.

I wouldn’t ever call something that can just as easily be born out of pure incompetence and inability to do your job at all “putting in the work.”

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Often I find the commons theme for teams like Buffalo and Edmonton that have/had missed the playoffs for so long despite having so many top picks is bad management. You can probably add Ottawa and Arizona to that list as well, as you have noted.

I'm not asking for the team to aim for top 5 picks every year, and I'm not asking for Conroy to trade everybody for a nuclear rebuild (we already have several veterans on long term contracts that can mentor younger players).

But the goal should be making the moves and enshrining a vision that allows the Flames to be the best possible team over the longest amount of time.

Being concerned about pivoting for next season and trying to compete again (if we do proceed with a bit of a sell off) is just not the right approach and it's that short sighted vision that has plagued this franchise for 20 +years.

I'm just ready for something new. That's where I am as a fan.

First: watching OTT last night, you can't blame that on management. They have a bad culture there, and it will be hard to shake (see: BUF).

As to the bold: always competing does not negate what you are wanting - all he is saying is keep the culture strong, even when you're making changes, don't 'accept' losing. The best franchises all do this.