Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Feels like going in circles watching this argument. If the Cons are that strong and Trudeau and Singh are both cooked then why would either of them want an election?

Are you saying this latest move by JS was a mistake?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think you are unable to put your self in Jagmeets perspective and evaluate which of the losing hands is best for the NDP / Jagmeet.

He’ll look like more of a hypocrite if he keeps propping up our supreme leader.

I think JS is screwed no matter what but he might gain back some credibility by being able to say he was the one to finally bury the wicked witch.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Canada remains to this day one of the best, most desirable countries to live on our planet. The list of countries about Canada is incredibly small.

If people think we’re a laughing stock or irrelevant, perhaps they should move somewhere better.

or stop watching Joe Rogan and his band of R word brothers?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I think JS is screwed no matter what but he might gain back some credibility by being able to say he was the one to finally bury the wicked witch.

Do you think there’s an actual example of someone who thinks Trudeau is a wicked witch and would suddenly be compelled to vote NDP because, after 3.5 years, Singh forced an early election?

Describe some of this imaginary person’s other beliefs.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Do you think there’s an actual example of someone who thinks Trudeau is a wicked witch and would suddenly be compelled to vote NDP because, after 3.5 years, Singh forced an early election?

Describe some of this imaginary person’s other beliefs.

The issue is people on this board continue to think it represents the vast majority of Canadians.

The vast majority of Canadians do not sit on message boards, Twitter, Bluesky (or whatever it is called) , etc all day, worrying about every tweet and comment a politician does.

Most Canadians do not really care about politics nor are they educated regarding policy. They see the headlines. The headline narrative has changed recently to "Trudeau is toxic for Canada" and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. I have diehard liberal friends who in the last few months have completely changed their tune - And it is because of nothing more then the popular sentiment is now "JT Sucks"

As we just saw in the US the biggest issue isn't people vote flipping, it's people not even coming out to vote. The Republicans got the same amount of votes as before and yet they dominated this election. Right now the people who are going to vote are the people who want change.

A lot of people (even on this board) are saying "Everyone Sucks" - Well for some this will make the NDP not suck and get them off their couches vs sitting at home at just not voting

I do believe there are voters who weren't going to vote for the Cons, and who also believed the NDP are part of the problem.

By taking the stand again JT, Singh at least gives himself some ammo that instead of being the enabler of the "downfall of Canada" he gets to be the "Savior who forced JT out"

This will be the headlines over the next few weeks (It already is " NDP voting no Confidence/Giving JT an ultimatum)

Now how many people this sways ? I have no idea nor whether is makes any actual difference. But momentum can build fast.

For all of you thinking the Cons are going to lose ground over the next 10 , months, that Canadians are going to realize PP is a weasel, etc etc that is preached on this board constantly, doesn't it make sense for the NDP to position themselves to take advantage of when this mistake happens? To give voters another choice?

This also is a hail mary by Singh to keep the party leadership. If people buy into the narrative that he took down JT / Is the one "looking out for the average Canadian" and his popularity rises he cements himself longer term as the NDP leader/ Saves his job

Does it work? Guess we will see what happens in the polls over the next while, but short term I would predict we see a NDP bump.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The issue is people on this board continue to think it represents the vast majority of Canadians.

The vast majority of Canadians do not sit on message boards, Twitter, Bluesky (or whatever it is called) , etc all day, worrying about every tweet and comment a politician does.

Most Canadians do not really care about politics nor are they educated regarding policy. They see the headlines. The headline narrative has changed recently to "Trudeau is toxic for Canada" and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. I have diehard liberal friends who in the last few months have completely changed their tune - And it is because of nothing more then the popular sentiment is now "JT Sucks"

As we just saw in the US the biggest issue isn't people vote flipping, it's people not even coming out to vote. The Republicans got the same amount of votes as before and yet they dominated this election. Right now the people who are going to vote are the people who want change.

A lot of people (even on this board) are saying "Everyone Sucks" - Well for some this will make the NDP not suck and get them off their couches vs sitting at home at just not voting

I do believe there are voters who weren't going to vote for the Cons, and who also believed the NDP are part of the problem.

By taking the stand again JT, Singh at least gives himself some ammo that instead of being the enabler of the "downfall of Canada" he gets to be the "Savior who forced JT out"

This will be the headlines over the next few weeks (It already is " NDP voting no Confidence/Giving JT an ultimatum)

Now how many people this sways ? I have no idea nor whether is makes any actual difference. But momentum can build fast.

For all of you thinking the Cons are going to lose ground over the next 10 , months, that Canadians are going to realize PP is a weasel, etc etc that is preached on this board constantly, doesn't it make sense for the NDP to position themselves to take advantage of when this mistake happens? To give voters another choice?

This also is a hail mary by Singh to keep the party leadership. If people buy into the narrative that he took down JT / Is the one "looking out for the average Canadian" and his popularity rises he cements himself longer term as the NDP leader/ Saves his job

Does it work? Guess we will see what happens in the polls over the next while, but short term I would predict we see a NDP bump.

That doesn’t really answer the question, but a couple points in addition:
- Post Media doesn’t mention the NDP in any headline on this topic, and due to their bias, it’s unlikely they will. Even the CBC frames PP as leading the charge here.
- Unless you believe people are totally stupid, which I don’t, then it’s highly unlikely for perception to change based on any single headline, let’s be real.
- If the NDP brings down the government, the 10-month timeline is irrelevant. That’s a long time in politics, but how exactly is the NDP supposed to take advantage of this if the election happens in weeks instead of months?

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

As we just saw in the US the biggest issue isn't people vote flipping, it's people not even coming out to vote. The Republicans got the same amount of votes as before and yet they dominated this election. Right now the people who are going to vote are the people who want change.

They dominated the college count, but not actually in the votes; that was an early headline that has since been debunked. Trump got 49.9 percent of the vote. Kamala got 48.4. A difference of just about 2.3 million votes. The amount other candidates got was just under 2.6 million(Not to say they all would have voted for Kamala, of course).

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The issue is people on this board continue to think it represents the vast majority of Canadians.

The vast majority of Canadians do not sit on message boards, Twitter, Bluesky (or whatever it is called) , etc all day, worrying about every tweet and comment a politician does.

Most Canadians do not really care about politics nor are they educated regarding policy. They see the headlines. The headline narrative has changed recently to "Trudeau is toxic for Canada" and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. I have diehard liberal friends who in the last few months have completely changed their tune - And it is because of nothing more then the popular sentiment is now "JT Sucks"

As we just saw in the US the biggest issue isn't people vote flipping, it's people not even coming out to vote. The Republicans got the same amount of votes as before and yet they dominated this election. Right now the people who are going to vote are the people who want change.

A lot of people (even on this board) are saying "Everyone Sucks" - Well for some this will make the NDP not suck and get them off their couches vs sitting at home at just not voting

I do believe there are voters who weren't going to vote for the Cons, and who also believed the NDP are part of the problem.

By taking the stand again JT, Singh at least gives himself some ammo that instead of being the enabler of the "downfall of Canada" he gets to be the "Savior who forced JT out"

This will be the headlines over the next few weeks (It already is " NDP voting no Confidence/Giving JT an ultimatum)

Now how many people this sways ? I have no idea nor whether is makes any actual difference. But momentum can build fast.

For all of you thinking the Cons are going to lose ground over the next 10 , months, that Canadians are going to realize PP is a weasel, etc etc that is preached on this board constantly, doesn't it make sense for the NDP to position themselves to take advantage of when this mistake happens? To give voters another choice?

This also is a hail mary by Singh to keep the party leadership. If people buy into the narrative that he took down JT / Is the one "looking out for the average Canadian" and his popularity rises he cements himself longer term as the NDP leader/ Saves his job

Does it work? Guess we will see what happens in the polls over the next while, but short term I would predict we see a NDP bump.

I think at this point after 10 years of the current setup that most people have their minds made up. I agree that anything that happens in the next few months will probably not make much of a difference. Historically it seems 8-10 years seems to be the shelf life for PMs. At that point you probably should cycle some new blood through as things start getting stale.

Two things from the setup in the states that would make sense in canada are term limits and another layer of government to serve as a check in majority government situations. Senate and house. In canada if there’s a majority government the PM becomes a king.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I think at this point after 10 years of the current setup that most people have their minds made up. I agree that anything that happens in the next few months will probably not make much of a difference. Historically it seems 8-10 years seems to be the shelf life for PMs. At that point you probably should cycle some new blood through as things start getting stale.

Two things from the setup in the states that would make sense in canada are term limits and another layer of government to serve as a check in majority government situations. Senate and house. In canada if there’s a majority government the PM becomes a king.

Good idea, if only we had some sort of sober house of second thought that also needs to review and approve bills, like a Senate or something. That'd help.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Good idea, if only we had some sort of sober house of second thought that also needs to review and approve bills, like a Senate or something. That'd help.

It may also help if they represented ALL of Canada e.g. "Triple E".

[Doctorfever]

https://apple.news/ApPopX2e6Tj6wpFN5G91zCQ

A new leader could help the Liberals offer “a more centrist vision” than the progressive agenda led by Trudeau, allowing the party to offer change at a time when Canadians desire it, Housefather added.
“For the vast majority of people I’m talking to you, they recognize that,” he said. “They know that we’re at a precipice. This is the last time that our leader can change, and I think that they would like that to happen.”
He added the “significant majority of MPs I’m speaking to” believe Trudeau “has no path to remain” as Liberal leader.

Seems the majority of Liberal MPs are calling for Trudeau’s resignation. More pressure on him to resign.

Proroguing parliament likely the next move for the Liberals. Assuming Trudeau resigns.

[Fuzz]

China said on Sunday it was taking countermeasures against two Canadian institutions and 20 people involved in human rights issues concerning the Uyghurs and Tibet.

The measures, which took effect on Saturday, include asset freezes and bans on entry and the targets include Canada's Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project and the Canada-Tibet Committee, China's foreign ministry announces on its website.

Rights groups accuse Beijing of widespread abuses of Uyghurs, a mainly Muslim ethnic minority that numbers around 10 million in the western region of Xinjiang, including the mass use of forced labour in camps. Beijing denies any abuses.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-...417415?cmp=rss

Hey China, go #### yourself eh. Wouldn't want anyone pointing too loudly at your ethnic slave labour farms. What a world.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Good idea, if only we had some sort of sober house of second thought that also needs to review and approve bills, like a Senate or something. That'd help.

They don’t really do their job though. The just rubber stamp what the PM sends their way. None of them are elected they are all appointed by the pm and given a rubber stamp.

Guess if the senate was elected it might actually fill that gap.

[Jacks]

On the independent Senate topic, this story came out earlier this year.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sen...rals-1.7260664

Despite Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's promise to rid the Senate of partisanship and patronage, most of the senators appointed to the upper house over the past year have ties to the Liberals.

Since July 2023, Trudeau has nominated 12 senators, eight of whom — 66 per cent of the total — have donated money to the federal Liberals or have worked with the federal party or a provincial Liberal party.

That's a significant jump in the number of Senate appointees with partisan Liberal ties — up from about 30 per cent of all senators appointed between January 2019 and July 2023.

"I think it is a disturbing trend," said Emmett Macfarlane, a political science professor at the University of Waterloo who wrote a draft document that became the basis for the advisory committee on Senate appointments.

"The appointment of the occasional partisan or person with a partisan history is completely, I think, valid," he said. "What is troubling is to see a slew of partisan appointments, particularly those that match the government stripes. This actually goes against the whole spirit of the reform."

Even the ones who don't have obvious ties to the party, most would have similar ideology to the governing party. The idea that all of these Senators are "independent" is a farce.



Both Senators appointed last week are previous elected Liberals
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...avut-1.7415280

Karetak-Lindell was a member of the Liberal Party when she was an MP and Surette was a member of the Nova Scotia Liberal Party as an MLA.A CBC News analysis conducted earlier this summer found more than half of Trudeau's most recent Senate appointments had Liberal connections.

I agree that we need another layer of government in this country but until the Senate is reformed and either elected or given term limits it is mostly a rubber stamp.

[Fuzz]

Lol, just wait until Pierre has the chance to stuff it full of the biggest hacks in Canada. " Oh noes, they donated to the Liberals" is gonna be a pretty pathetic sounding complaint in a couple years.

[Jacks]

Oooh, you really got me with a zinger there. Poilievre isn't pretending that he will be appointing independents, so they'd both do the same except you're okay with Trudeau lying to you about it. Besides, Trudeau has appointed 86 senators including the spots that were left vacant by Harper, it will take a decade or more to shift the balance in the upper chamber.

[Fuzz]

K? What should Trudeau have done, left Harper's appointments empty? Not do his job?

[Jacks]

Well he shouldn't have promised to appoint independents if he was going to appoint partisans maybe?

[Fuzz]

What is an independent? Who are these politically neutral unicorns you speak of? Is a Mike Duffy better?

Removing organized parties was absolutely the right thing to do, particularly if you think they are just there to rubber stamp their boses plans.

[Jacks]

I'm not arguing with you, just a waste of time.