2025 NHL Draft Thread

[Monahammer]

It's an objective value, but i agree jiri, there's an additional barrier, probably mental, at the 10th pick that makes it really difficult to trade into.

I am looking forward to the lottery. What if we could win? I used to never hit the chance on the simulator but lately I've been hitting it often. 6th oa + what guarantees us Misa?

[Wastedyouth]

Charlie Tretheway probably has some warts, but I thought he was flying out there.

Might be a good mid round pick.

His overall stats this year don't look impressive, till you notice hes like a week away from being a 2026 draft eligible prospect and is very very young for this draft class.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I'm hoping that McQueen isn't like Couturier- more time in the IR than on the ice, but I would do it- I would also probably do it for O'Brien, Frondell, Desnoyers or Misa as well, simply because I believe we need a future #1C. Is Reschny a #1C? Probably not.

Just my opinion.

Thanks.

So flipping the question on it's head. If you are the Sabres and you are deep in C but needing to upgrade your RD and LW positions, would you make that trade?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

It's an objective value, but i agree jiri, there's an additional barrier, probably mental, at the 10th pick that makes it really difficult to trade into.

I am looking forward to the lottery. What if we could win? I used to never hit the chance on the simulator but lately I've been hitting it often. 6th oa + what guarantees us Misa?

Too much I think. I mean if CGY won the lottery, got 6th overall I'd be pretty okay with that as is. Would a team take the Flames 2x 1sts to move up 4 spots? Maybe. Depends. But I don't recall the last time a team within the top ten moved up. It's been forever.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Too much I think. I mean if CGY won the lottery, got 6th overall I'd be pretty okay with that as is. Would a team take the Flames 2x 1sts to move up 4 spots? Maybe. Depends. But I don't recall the last time a team within the top ten moved up. It's been forever.

Big fan of misa but the drop to frondell, o’brien, or desnoyer would probably not be worth it.

Myself i dont hold much to the none of these guys could be first liners.

Walking away with Frondell, desnoyer and then Cootes or murtagh or zonnon with the second pick thats a home run draft without picking first.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The Flames need to use 3 or 4 of their 4 picks in the top 3 rounds on centers. We simply don’t “need” defensemen or wingers with any urgency like we do with centers.

I would not be sad if all the picks were centers even.
Similarly, would not be disappointed to trade down a bit to get more picks depending on the situation either.

I get that thinking, but look at the draft we had last year. Just grabbing solid players no matter the position. Mews is a perfect example and if a right shot dman is sitting there in the 3rd round with that profile, then you grab him and figure it out later.

I don't want anymore Boltmanns who obviously wasn't a high end player when drafted but did it when we we desperate for right shot blueliners.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Too much I think. I mean if CGY won the lottery, got 6th overall I'd be pretty okay with that as is. Would a team take the Flames 2x 1sts to move up 4 spots? Maybe. Depends. But I don't recall the last time a team within the top ten moved up. It's been forever.

Good question. In 2024, minny sent a 3rd to philly to move up from 13th to 12th. 2016 the senators moved up one spot from 12 to 11th and it also cost them a 3rd.

If a 2nd is worth one spot in the top 10, is a 1st worth 3? 6th OA to 3rd OA?

I don't think it's out of the question that we could get up to 2nd or 3rd. 1st is impossible.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What's this based off of? Because I don't recall that type of deal really happening. It seems really hard to move into the top 10.

The puckpedia value is based off historic trades. Basically they set the 1st OA pick's value as 100 and the use past pick only trades to set an exponential decline curve to estimate the value of every other pick. Can read more about it here: https://puckpedia.com/PerriPickValue

Perhaps the most recent trade that could be comparable to the Flames wanting to move up in the 2025 draft is in the 2022 NHL draft when SJ traded 11th OA to ARI for 27th OA, 34th OA and 45th OA. 18+22 is better than 27+34+45

Of course in the real world it all depends more on each teams individual ranking list and where the perceived drops in talents are.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The puckpedia value is based off historic trades. Basically they set the 1st OA pick's value as 100 and the use past pick only trades to set an exponential decline curve to estimate the value of every other pick. Can read more about it here: https://puckpedia.com/PerriPickValue

Perhaps the most recent trade that could be comparable to the Flames wanting to move up in the 2025 draft is in the 2022 NHL draft when SJ traded 11th OA to ARI for 27th OA, 34th OA and 45th OA. 18+22 is better than 27+34+45

Of course in the real world it all depends more on each teams individual ranking list and where the perceived drops in talents are.

What a strange trade for San Jose to make. Did they dump salary with it as well? In terms of prospects, Arizona got Conor Geekie while San Jose got Filip Bystedt, Cameron Lund and Mattias Havelid.

[dammage79]

If the Flames won the lotto. And found a way to get up to 3rd OA for their pick of the litter between Frondell, Hagens. Would it be okay if they gave up that FLA pick to do it?

Or is it Misa or bust.

I'd have a long think about Frondell. He should be 3rd OA. Likely will be.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by dammage79

If the Flames won the lotto. And found a way to get up to 3rd OA for their pick of the litter between Frondell, Hagens. Would it be okay if they gave up that FLA pick to do it?

Or is it Misa or bust.

I'd have a long think about Frondell. He should be 3rd OA. Likely will be.

If they won the draft lottery, they smoke t have the Florida pick because it would go to Montreal. It would have to be the New Jersey pick used in a trade to move up from 6th overall to say 3rd overall.

In answer to your question, I don’t think it’s Misa or bust. If Frondell was in range, I would go for it.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by stemit14

What a strange trade for San Jose to make. Did they dump salary with it as well? In terms of prospects, Arizona got Conor Geekie while San Jose got Filip Bystedt, Cameron Lund and Mattias Havelid.

It was just picks swapped on draft day. No players, no salary, no LTIRetirement.

That is where the team's individual list comes in.

SJ apparently didn't really overly like any of the players they could take at 11. Felt like dropping down 16 spots and picking up an additional two 2nd rounders was worth it.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

It was just picks swapped on draft day. No players, no salary, no LTIRetirement.

That is where the team's individual list comes in.

SJ apparently didn't really overly like any of the players they could take at 11. Felt like dropping down 16 spots and picking up an additional two 2nd rounders was worth it.

But teams never trade down on draft day.... and San Jose would never trade down in a draft!!!!!11!!?

Thanks for sharing, I think that gives hope to those of us who want to see Conroy trade up for the best C possible.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Thanks.

So flipping the question on it's head. If you are the Sabres and you are deep in C but needing to upgrade your RD and LW positions, would you make that trade?

I doubt they'd do it. They've got a number of young potential stars and higher end prospects. They don't need volume; they need substance. And they can get another high end winger in Martone/Eklund or defender in Aitcheson/Mrtka (right handed), or just draft a centre and use him on the wing for the first few years.

They're more likely to trade that pick away then trade it for two lower round picks--unless they really don't like the players available at 8.

[Tkachukwagon]

Cootes is in the Flames range

https://twitter.com/user/status/1915550435005620471

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Thanks.

So flipping the question on it's head. If you are the Sabres and you are deep in C but needing to upgrade your RD and LW positions, would you make that trade?

I'm not so sure that Buffalo is truly deep at the C position. A lot of the players listed at center in that organization are either vastly more suited to the wing, or perhaps without the ceiling of a first-liner. If I were Buffalo, I would most likely just keep the pick. What do you think?

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I'm not so sure that Buffalo is truly deep at the C position. A lot of the players listed at center in that organization are either vastly more suited to the wing, or perhaps without the ceiling of a first-liner. If I were Buffalo, I would most likely just keep the pick. What do you think?

I think Buffalo rams a lot of Cs onto the wing that another org would commit to playing down the middle. But I do not really watch them enough to be confident in that stance.

I think the Sabres are such a disaster right now that no move really looks like a good move. If I were them, I would start with firing the GM and coach and then I wouldn't trade down the draft, I would trade out of the draft to try and find an established star player that can properly compliment their stacked talent pool and get them into the playoffs next year. (Basically they need Kadri.)

When you look at the draft pedigree of their forward group, it is insane:
2023 1st - 2022 1st - 2016 1st
2020 2nd - 2018 2nd - 2020 1st
2010 2nd - 2019 1st - 2014 1st
2021 1st - 2022 1st - 2014 4th

And they still have guys like Helenius in the wings.

Even with their lack of success they are going to start having to sign all of these players to bigger and bigger contracts and end up in salary cap jail while still being a basement team. Right now they need to sign McLeod, Quinn, Peterka, and Byram to pretty significant raises with only $24M in cap space (and they still need a backup goalie and a couple more roster players).

I do not think another top 10 prospect helps this situation.

[Sandman]

Draft Thoughts (Hidden Gems Edition, Vol. 50):

LW Cassius "Cash" Koch 6'0",196lbs
Tri-City (WHL): 61gp/ 11g/ 7a/ 18pts, -10, 107 PIM

Calgary-born Cash Koch (ranked # 181 NA Skaters) was given the rank of "C" by Central Scouting in their preliminary rankings, denoting a potential 4th, or 5th-round pick, but for whatever reason, he wasn't able to build on his 2023-24 season- where he put up 23 points in 68 games. Drafted in the second-round, 24th-overall in 2022 by the Amerks, Koch finished the regular season 12th in scoring for his team with 18 points, but ended up in a 4-way tie for 1st in playoff scoring for Tri-City, with a goal and 3 points in 5 games, as they were eliminated from the post-season by Victoria. I see a player who would be producing a lot more, if he was being used properly; he reminds me a bit of a young Micheal Ferland, who posted 28 points in 61 games (85 PIM) for the Wheaties back in his draft year, so I look forward to seeing what Cash can do in the coming seasons. While he might be more or less average-sized, Koch is like a heat-seeking missile, playing with hustle and uncommon pace, while delivering bone-jarring hits, and he impacts the game in all three zones. Few players in junior are as relentlessly physical as he is, and like the Honey Badger- he never backs down from a fight. Despite his fearsome reputation, he possesses a fairly good toolbox with reasonable skill and a translatable style- though he plays a mostly simple, straightforward game.

Like Ferland, Koch is already an excellent skater, but he amplifies his mobility with his hustle, tempo, and sky-high workrate, which makes him all the more dangerous. He gets good maneuverability off his edges, and owns an explosive first-step, with outstanding acceleration to full-throttle. He's fearless, with high-end motor and intensity, and never leaves a bodycheck unfinished; he delivers stiff jolts to opponents big and small, some in open-ice, and can swing momentum for his team with a huge hit, or a scrap. He even fights like Ferland, with haymakers aplenty, and will drop the gloves in defense of a teammate- and from what I've seen, he has a favorable win-loss record. Koch plays on the edge and drives his opponents crazy- he's usually the focus of most post-whistle swarms, and often has a target on his back. He doesn't just throw his weight around to punish and intimidate though- he does it to disrupt the opposition in all three zones, and to separate man from puck. He lauches himself into puck-battles, and comes away with possession more often than not. As one might expect, he's a killer on the forecheck, and keeps puck-carriers on their toes with his speed and aggression. Seeking contact early and often, he works to snuff retrievals and throw his opponents' breakouts into disarray- he seems to always stay on the right side of the puck at all times as well. Rinse and repeat in the neutral zone.

I think Koch's shot is underrated; he can score from a fair distance with his dangerous wrister that explodes off his blade, or his bomb of a one-timer, and he can fire off the catch with enough accuracy to pick corners. Of course, he attacks the inside for chances and goes to the net without fear. He may not be a true creator or a play-driver per se, but he possesses offensive awareness and flashes passing proficiency in making plays to the slot, cross-ice feeds, and sometimes shows glimpses of bigger ideas that go unrealized. While he is confident with the puck, some say his puck-skill lets him down, and he needs refinement in this area. One of Koch's biggest selling points is his value in transition; he gives his team advantages with his ability to advance the play with quick passes, give-and-go sequences, and banks off of the boards, or by driving with speed and pace through the middle to make room for teammates- showing poise and patience. He packs some sneaky one-on-one moves that allow him to occasionally deke around defenders on the fly, as well. He was practically born to kill penalties, and is a pretty potent defensive performer, bringing his hard-hat approach and aggressiveness to limit time and space. Koch backchecks as hard as he forechecks, with physicality to win pucks. He supports his D down low, and covers for them when they have to leave their post. I'm not under the illusion that Koch will be more than a bottom-six winger at the NHL level, but he's easily worth a draft pick this summer with his value defensively, in transition, and as an insulator- but let's see how his offense and puck-skills develop. Look for him in later rounds.

[fotze2]

Cash rules. He have bare knuckle boxing matches with his brothers in his basement. Tough as fata. They’d huck large rocks at each others heads.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Good question. In 2024, minny sent a 3rd to philly to move up from 13th to 12th. 2016 the senators moved up one spot from 12 to 11th and it also cost them a 3rd.

If a 2nd is worth one spot in the top 10, is a 1st worth 3? 6th OA to 3rd OA?

I don't think it's out of the question that we could get up to 2nd or 3rd. 1st is impossible.

It completely depends on the draft and the actual players available in those spots.

Most experts think that the top 2 players are on a level above the rest of the players.

If that is true (and it's likely a big if, but let's assume it is), the cost to move up from 6 to 2 is enormous.

Now, if players 3 to, say, 6 are considered a grouping, the cost to move up from 6 to 3 may only be a later first round pick, That would depend entirely upon the team picking 3 being of the mind that the players from 3-6 are pretty much the same. Which is very unlikely. As team's opinion of players at that level usually differ quite a bit.

Now, once you get past 10, especially in this draft, the opinion on players will differ greatly. As these players will all have some faults and downside. Much easier for a team to move down 3-4 spots if they get something they value.