[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We sold a core guy, a add on guy with one year left and a prospect that was never going to sign here for two core guys at 23 and under.

I'm good.

Why are you automatically deeming Lindholm to be a core asset for the Flames? From Canes fans perspective, it doesn't seem like any of them saw him as a core asset being shipped out, and they've watched him play for years.

IMO, he's a guy that could be a core asset is he finally reaches the potential he had in his draft year, but he's not there yet.

[djsFlames]

I consider backlund and Frolik really good third liners.

Ferland played like a top six under very certain conditions. But honestly it felt more and more last year like mony, Johnny and Tkachuk were our top six guys. I think lindholm is on the cusp of being a bonafide top six forward, so that brings us to 4. We really need another add here, then hope that a kid takes another step forward or backlund has an offensive resurgence.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Why are you automatically deeming Lindholm to be a core asset for the Flames? From Canes fans perspective, it doesn't seem like any of them saw him as a core asset being shipped out, and they've watched him play for years.

IMO, he's a guy that could be a core asset is he finally reaches the potential he had in his draft year, but he's not there yet.

Lindholm doesn't need to be a core asset. He needs to be Chris Kunitz. He needs to be someone who can play with the two best players on the team and not hold them back.

[SportsJunky]

Not sure that I agree but USA Today declares the Flames the big winner on draft day because of this trade.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...raft/36332423/

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

The more I read up about the situation and both players we got, the more I warm up to it.

I expect by season's start I'll be convinced they're the second coming of Peter Forsberg and Ryan Suter.

Come on. it's the Flames. Hakan Loob and Gary Suter they are!

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by johnny makarov

come on. It's the flames. Hakan loob and gary suter they are!

damn straight!!!

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Why are you automatically deeming Lindholm to be a core asset for the Flames? From Canes fans perspective, it doesn't seem like any of them saw him as a core asset being shipped out, and they've watched him play for years.

IMO, he's a guy that could be a core asset is he finally reaches the potential he had in his draft year, but he's not there yet.

You keep referencing what Canes fans think but I believe most of the opinions you are getting are opinions after the trade was done. I think the general consensus about Lindholm is that he’s gradually improving and has more room to grow while playing a energetic 2 way game.

[H2SO4(aq)]

I’m oretty happy with the trade. Hanafin looks like a solid young top 4 guy. Lindholm seems like a versatile top 9 guy who I honestly wanted more than mony at the draft. And I think most importantly, if by moving Hamilton and returning Brodie to gios right side can make Brodie the player from 2015, then this trade is a huge win. Getting 2015 Brodie and hanafin for Hamilton would be a steal. Hoping it works out like that.

As for the former flames, I hated how ferland ended last season. He looked checked out. Hamilton, I’ll ignore the rumours of character issues, but he is a soft player. His dumb penalties were frustrating too. I’m not sad at all to see him go. Fox wasn’t going to sign, don’t care.

[JurassicTunga12]

Any interviews with Lindholm yet?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by JurassicTunga12

Any interviews with Lindholm yet?

No. What an uppity swede.

Joking aside, it's sunday. and post draft. Im sure the radio guys have to fly home and get ready for tomorrow.

So Im assuming we will hear from him tomorrow. Lindholm also was in Russia for the Sweden game yesterday. Suffice to say he was not going to find a quiet place.

[PeteMoss]

Dougie Hamilton is the ultimate stats vs scouts guy.

Stats guys think he's elite and dominate. I'd argue a ton of that is due to playing with Giordano and the 3M line who are really good. But we shall see now that they are apart.

Scouts/GMs etc constantly show they feel differently. Hamilton was left off the Team North America at the World Cup behind guys like Ryan Murray or Jacob Trouba. He's been traded twice for non-elite player returns.

[bigrangy]

Hamilton was left off team NA because Chiarelli was still salty about not getting him from Boston. He was miles better than anyone on that team.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Dougie Hamilton is the ultimate stats vs scouts guy.

Stats guys think he's elite and dominate. I'd argue a ton of that is due to playing with Giordano and the 3M line who are really good. But we shall see now that they are apart.

Scouts/GMs etc constantly show they feel differently. Hamilton was left off the Team North America at the World Cup behind guys like Ryan Murray or Jacob Trouba. He's been traded twice for non-elite player returns.

Not explicitly you, but as a group can we lay off the hyperbole on the two incoming guys. Hanafin was a 21 year old all-star last year. Yes there are holes in his game, but for his age and skill level, this is a high end player.

As a mental exercise, I challenge those that are struggling with the quality of Hanafin and Lindholm to find another time in teams history where we could have made a trade like this getting two <23 year olds of their quality without giving up our top two forwards or our captain. I don't think we have had a return like this since likely the Nieuwendyk deal.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

After a day to think about it, I think DH just didn't have the type of bananas trade value that was being proclaimed by many on this site. It was a fair trade, both gave to get. DH obviously had to go and this was the best trade out there. Not much you can do about that. At least BT didn't 'Phaneuf' this trade all to hell. That's a positive.

I think Hamilton did have massive trade value. But in my narrative Noah Hanifin also has massive trade value and so does Elias Lindholm. I think some are underrating the value of the young players we got from CAR because they haven't fully developed yet. I think Hanifin's value is not far off Seth Jones' value when he was dealt for Ryan Johansen.

The original proposal we talked about where Hamilton was traded for Hanifin + Lindholm would have been an absolute fleecing of CAR IMO. Basically we'd be getting Lindholm almost for free because I view Hanifin's value and Hamilton's value as very close.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Mike F

That's the problem in a nutshell! You have to believe that this was the big trade this offseason (Peters has said that they see Gio playing with Brodie and Hanifin with Hamonic, so there's no more valuable defensemen to ship out) yet it's debatable whether the team is any better* and, by your own admission, it definitely still hasn't addressed the scoring issue!

When I questioned whether he's done, what I meant was I'm not sure if he'll be able to get more scoring. Certainly I think he knows it's needed and will try.


Do you feel this trade served no purpose then? Just a trade for the sake of making a trade? It's been mentioned by others in various threads, but you don't have to fix all the problems with a single trade. Nor should you be expected to.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Why are you automatically deeming Lindholm to be a core asset for the Flames? From Canes fans perspective, it doesn't seem like any of them saw him as a core asset being shipped out, and they've watched him play for years.

IMO, he's a guy that could be a core asset is he finally reaches the potential he had in his draft year, but he's not there yet.

Well I don't see Canes fans as some of authority. Imagine fans of another team looked at our Bennett discussions. They'd think he was a worthless piece of crap based on what half this site says about him.

Fans in general have a problem with running out of patience for young players to develop. We saw it with Backlund. We saw it with Jankowski. We see it with Bennett. Same is likely the case for Canes fans and Lindholm.

Scouts and GMs don't have that same issue. They realize some young kids take until 24-26 to hit their peak. They watch the players and see more upside, more development to go.

Lindholm is very likely to be a core player for us because he's very likely to continue to improve in the next two years. Same goes for Hanifin.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well I don't see Canes fans as some of authority. Imagine fans of another team looked at our Bennett discussions. They'd think he was a worthless piece of crap based on what half this site says about him.

Fans in general have a problem with running out of patience for young players to develop. We saw it with Backlund. We saw it with Jankowski. We see it with Bennett. Same is likely the case for Canes fans and Lindholm.

Scouts and GMs don't have that same issue. They realize some young kids take until 24-26 to hit their peak. They watch the players and see more upside, more development to go.

Lindholm is very likely to be a core player for us because he's very likely to continue to improve in the next two years. Same goes for Hanifin.

Further to what you said. Sometimes these young guys are asked not to worry too much about offense but to work developing a good 200 foot game. Just because a player is not scoring does not mean he is not doing the job he was asked to do. Peters knows Lindholm and now probably feels he is ready to take that step with some offensive players. At least they are going to take a look and see and we do have some more options.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think Hamilton did have massive trade value. But in my narrative Noah Hanifin also has massive trade value and so does Elias Lindholm. I think some are underrating the value of the young players we got from CAR because they haven't fully developed yet. I think Hanifin's value is not far off Seth Jones' value when he was dealt for Ryan Johansen.

The original proposal we talked about where Hamilton was traded for Hanifin + Lindholm would have been an absolute fleecing of CAR IMO. Basically we'd be getting Lindholm almost for free because I view Hanifin's value and Hamilton's value as very close.

Yep. Hamilton for Hanifin or Lindholm on their own is a bad deal for us. Hamilton for both is a great deal for us.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Sometimes patience pays off. Look at devante smith pelly and Brett Connolly.

[bluejays]

I like the trade, though the Flames gave up a little more than warranted for the risk taken on. Risky because the chances of the players reaching their upside aren't extremely high, and secondly signing to a reasonable contract is still TBD. You know what you're getting with Hamilton, and while he may not be a franchise dman (I don't think he is), he was pretty solid. No problem with them dealing Fox as they appeared to be on the outside looking in when it came to signing him. So Carolina if they're able to sign him ends up with a very good prospect. So this now comes down to Ferland, and though the guy has a pretty unique skillset being a powerforward, I think his mediocre speed has been upgraded on, but I wish they made a separate deal to either bring in a player one for one or deal him for a draft pick. I was once high on the guy, but speed is a bigger part of the NHL game now so not having him on the team is a plus, but I'm sure there are teams out there who would take a different approach to the game and would welcome him.