[Rumour] UPD: Friedman: Thinks a deal will get done between Gaudreau and the Flames in the next week

[polak]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

No, I don't agree with that, because this contract is not about worth, it is about leverage, plain and simple. I think Monahan will be a more important player than Gio well before the end of their contracts, but I still do not think Monahan should be paid half a million more per year. Gio signed as a pending UFA. Completely different situation. If the Flames pay much more than what Gio makes on average, I will consider it a massive with for Lewis Gross.

Negotiating simply on leverage and not on worth and value (i.e. strong arming) is a great way to ruin a relationship.

Gaudreau would be crazy to sign long term if the negotiation is going to be based purely on leverage and I bet that there's no way we see a long term deal under 7 a year because of that. He can sign a bridge and claw back that leverage if the Flames are going to play hard ball.

[JerryUnderscore]

I didn't bring this up or realize this in any of my previous posts, but... does this actually matter? Obviously it matter to Gaudreau's personal bank account and to the Flames cap efficiency.

But since revenue is split 50/50, why should anyone (owners or players) ultimately care about this contract. Whether Gaudreau signs for the league minimum or maximum, the owners will still get their 50% share and the players will still split their share. So if anything, the NHLPA should be trying to argue for Gaudreau to take a smaller contract so as to not take a larger piece of the pie from the other players.

So, even though this clearly sets a precedent for other contracts getting signed in the future (regardless of Gaudreavertime's opinion), how does this contract affect the landscape of the NHL?

Edit: For example, if Gaudreau were to sign an $8M contract. It's not actually $8M, it's .36% of the players share of revenue. Why would Edwards put his foot down about whether it's .36% or .34% when that percentage will always be based on the PA's share of revenue to begin with?

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

People are far too black and white. It is both about worth and leverage. Leverage is playing a part in this, as it should, JG's worth and more importantly expected worth (which is hard to figure out) is playing a part in this.

To say that this negotiation is only about leverage is complete crap, and I hope both BT and JGs agent aren't looking at it that way. Smart good business decisions don't get made entirely on leverage in negotiations, as that would create only one outcome. WIN for the Flames and not for JG. Both sides are hopefully looking to get a WIN WIN deal, or as close to one as they can, as that tends to drive the best business results (in this case, that means Flames success).

It depends on what you think "worth" means. To me, since Treliving is already offering a bigger contract than Monahan got, he is making a fair offer by valuing Johnny's worth as being the most important of their young, upcoming players but still within the structure of considering him ONE of Calgary's most important players and not THE most important player. If he goes up to near 7 million a year, that is showing a lot of value on Johnny's worth in that context. People on this board want to argue about Johnny being paid as one of the top ten players in the league, and so his worth should mean he receives much higher value than any other player on the team. If that is the gap in considerations of worth, the final number comes down to leverage.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

I didn't bring this up or realize this in any of my previous posts, but... does this actually matter? Obviously it matter to Gaudreau's personal bank account and to the Flames cap efficiency.

But since revenue is split 50/50, why should anyone (owners or players) ultimately care about this contract. Whether Gaudreau signs for the league minimum or maximum, the owners will still get their 50% share and the players will still split their share. So if anything, the NHLPA should be trying to argue for Gaudreau to take a smaller contract so as to not take a larger piece of the pie from the other players.

So, even though this clearly sets a precedent for other contracts getting signed in the future (regardless of Gaudreavertime's opinion), how does this contract affect the landscape of the NHL?

Every owner in the West would like the Flames to sign Gaudreau to a 14.6M x 8 year contract..... the league max... That makes it easier for them to make the playoffs. Gio might be for it as he would become a buy-out target...and in for an even bigger payout playing for a reasonable cap on a contender.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

It gets really batty is when you look up what $$$ amount he voted for in the poll

That's the number he proposed on a six/seven year deal.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Every owner in the West would like the Flames to sign Gaudreau to a 14.6M x 8 year contract..... the league max... That makes it easier for them to make the playoffs. Gio might be for it as he would become a buy-out target...and in for an even bigger payout playing for a reasonable cap on a contender.

Yeah, you're clearly talking about cap efficiency, which I mentioned. It's a bad idea for the Flames to spend $8M on Gaudreau since then need to maximize how they spend their static $74M.

However, from an owner/precedent setting standpoint... who cares?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

People are far too black and white. It is both about worth and leverage. Leverage is playing a part in this, as it should, JG's worth and more importantly expected worth (which is hard to figure out) is playing a part in this.

To say that this negotiation is only about leverage is complete crap, and I hope both BT and JGs agent aren't looking at it that way. Smart good business decisions don't get made entirely on leverage in negotiations, as that would create only one outcome. WIN for the Flames and not for JG. Both sides are hopefully looking to get a WIN WIN deal, or as close to one as they can, as that tends to drive the best business results (in this case, that means Flames success).

I agree with this. I can't believe that some people think the best course is to use every ounce of leverage to underpay Gaudreau as much as possible. The long term effect of such tactics is bound to have a negative effect.

You end up with an upset player, upset teammates, a player that is going to fight tooth and nail when the next negotiations happen (or just leave), and a reputation as team that doesn't negotiate based on contribution and value, but rather on how much they can leverage you.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That's the number he proposed on a six/seven year deal.

I thought it was based off 7 years?

Regardless, how much more could that 8th year be worth?

The amount of effort he's put into the crusade would make me think his opinion was worlds away, not 500k-ish.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I agree with this. I can't believe that some people think the best course is to use every ounce of leverage to underpay Gaudreau as much as possible. The long term effect of such tactics is bound to have a negative effect.

You end up with an upset player, upset teammates, a player that is going to fight tooth and nail when the next negotiations happen (or just leave), and a reputation as team that doesn't negotiate based on contribution and value, but rather on how much they can leverage you.

Not necessarily. The giant part that no one on this board knows is the tenor of the communication. It is totally possible to make a case for paying Johnny close to what the other top players on his team make in a fair and sensitive manner. Holding firm does not mean being disrespectful or disregarding the other side's counter points. If things are well reasoned and well communicated, a negotiation can be quite civil even with large differences in opinion or perspectives.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Every owner in the West would like the Flames to sign Gaudreau to a 14.6M x 8 year contract..... the league max... That makes it easier for them to make the playoffs. Gio might be for it as he would become a buy-out target...and in for an even bigger payout playing for a reasonable cap on a contender.

Freidman brought up a good point though. Johnny being RFA without arb rights is a big hammer for Treliving in this negotiation. It's in the other owners / GMs best interests for Treliving to get a good contract, as this will set the bar for future negotiations of this nature for everyone else.

[Fire Park '71]

Once this all blows over I want to hear this player express some sort of gratitude. Something like, "Even though I was passed over, multiple times, in my draft year by the Calgary Flames and every other team in the league, The Calgary Flames selected me and gave me a chance.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Fire Park '71

Once this all blows over I want to hear this player express some sort of gratitude. Something like, "Even though I was passed over, multiple times, in my draft year by the Calgary Flames and every other team in the league, The Calgary Flames selected me and gave me a chance.

Page one of the Kevin Lowe School of Business

[FeyWest]

Originally Posted by Fire Park '71

Once this all blows over I want to hear this player express some sort of gratitude. Something like, "Even though I was passed over, multiple times, in my draft year by the Calgary Flames and every other team in the league, The Calgary Flames selected me and gave me a chance.

Uhhhh I'm pretty sure he has... This is kind of a ridiculous statement.

I just want this to be done so this thread can be locked, I don't think there is any horse left at this point.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Fire Park '71

Once this all blows over I want to hear this player express some sort of gratitude. Something like, "Even though I was passed over, multiple times, in my draft year by the Calgary Flames and every other team in the league, The Calgary Flames selected me and gave me a chance.

Who cares? Johnny isn't the great player he is today because he was drafted. He got this good on his own

[GoJetsGo]

Not sure if this was directly posted as I have little interest in reading most of the nonsense in previous pages...

Here is Elliotte Friedman on the Fan960 this morning expanding on talking to Gross and giving his thoughts on the whole issue in depth:




http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-m...ers-stalemate/

- Thinks there is pressure (both internally and from around the league) on the Flames not to cave and change the structure of the way young players in this position (where the team has all the leverage) are paid

- Thought Gross's comments about Gaudreau not wanting a trade were genuine

- Thinks both sides are frustrated and it's a stalemate

- His guess is Flames are in the mid 6 area and Gaudreau's camp around 8 or slightly over. Thinks that's the trenches and that both sides know they have to move

- Said in most cases like that he (Friedman) usually has a good idea where the end number will be but in this case is genuinely stumped

- (This was interesting) Said he got Treliving on the phone yesterday after he talked to Gross and told him what Gross said. He said he could tell Tree's reaction was that he was about to say something to counter but that he paused, caught himself, and wouldn't comment. Friedman said "come on, spit it out" and Treliving wouldn't even though he said he got the feeling he really wanted to.

- Thinks Monahan was right when he said it will get done


A good listen even though it's all things we pretty much know, but it clarifies a lot of the points in play.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Freidman brought up a good point though. Johnny being RFA without arb rights is a big hammer for Treliving in this negotiation. It's in the other owners / GMs best interests for Treliving to get a good contract, as this will set the bar for future negotiations of this nature for everyone else.

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

- Thinks there is pressure (both internally and from around the league) on the Flames not to cave and change the structure of the way young players in this position (where the team has all the leverage) are paid

Honestly, I think Treliving will do what's best for the Calgary Flames and couldn't give 2 's what any other teams/owners/GM's think.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Honestly, I think Treliving will do what's best for the Calgary Flames and couldn't give 2 's what any other teams/owners/GM's think.

But what the other teams are saying is in line with what's best for the Flames in that scenario in not changing the pay structure of those situations.

He also mentioned the Oilers handing out candy-contracts to Hall/Nuge/Ebs as an example of frivolous GM behaviour that can change the landscape for the whole league.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Friedman said on the radio this morning that he expects a contract to be signed this week.

When??? I missed that part.

[Cole436]

Where's the information the thread title is coming from?? That's not in the fan960 notes.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

When??? I missed that part.

He didn't say that, that I heard.

Closest thing was that he thought Monahan was right when he said it would get done (no specifics).