The Drive for 30th

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I'm not convinced the drop-off is that dramatic between the top 4 and the next 4. Monahan and Lindholm could both be first liners. Nurse could be a top two defenseman.

But obviously I'd much rather we were drafting 4th and had our choice of them.

What I really want is for some team ahead of us to take Nichushkin and let somebody else drop to us.

My biggest fear is Feaster taking Nichushkin.

[bucksmasher]

Originally Posted by SebC

We only move down if someone higher in the standings wins... that's not a 75% chance.

oh that's right, thanks!

[Racki]

I'd be okay of we drafted Nurse. I'm tired of having a team full of choir boys. I like Nurse's size, toughness and swagger. This team has lacked a little bit of swagger for a long time.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I'm not convinced the drop-off is that dramatic between the top 4 and the next 4. Monahan and Lindholm could both be first liners. Nurse could be a top two defenseman.

But obviously I'd much rather we were drafting 4th and had our choice of them.

What I really want is for some team ahead of us to take Nichushkin and let somebody else drop to us.

Sure, Lindholm and Monahan would be top 5 guys in other years, but you still want the best that the draft has to offer you. And the chance at a franchise player is significantly greater in the 1-4 picks as opposed to the 4-7 picks. But absolutely, the shot remains that we could pick up a 1st line guy the 2nd tier group, probably someone who can be part of the core. But he likely won't be "the" guy. And I don't like the line of thought that "there's next year", cause I really don't want to see this team in the gutter for any extended period of time, and most certainly don't want to be banking on it, either. We need to make this draft count. We have 3 first rounders, after all. If the stars align and they all develop into blue chippers, this could be a one and done deal.

Gotta make it count. And if that means that Nichuskin in the most 'elite' player available to us, then we must consider drafting him. He was ranked 2nd by different scouting sources, after all. He could, legitimately, be this club's Ovechkin down the road.

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by iggysback05

I'd be okay of we drafted Nurse. I'm tired of having a team full of choir boys. I like Nurse's size, toughness and swagger. This team has lacked a little bit of swagger for a long time.

Certainly would have the potential of a mean blueline with Nurse, Sieloff, Cundari. Also super soft up front in the present and in their prospect group.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by iggysback05

I'd be okay of we drafted Nurse. I'm tired of having a team full of choir boys. I like Nurse's size, toughness and swagger. This team has lacked a little bit of swagger for a long time.

I would not say no, but the flames need to draft a 1st line center in the next 2 drafts. Have to think that one of Lindholm or Monohan will be on the board this year. From what i have looked at,the center position does not look deep for 2014 draft. They would pretty much be relying on getting Reinhart.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Gotta make it count. And if that means that Nichuskin in the most 'elite' player available to us, then we must consider drafting him. He was ranked 2nd by different scouting sources, after all. He could, legitimately, be this club's Ovechkin down the road.

Nope, only by one scouting source that I've seen, ISS. I wouldn't prioritize their rankings over everybody else. If anything its best to average out all the rankings and that will give you a better idea of where the players might land.

Redline (6th), C. Button (5th), Future Considerations (6th), The Scouting Report (7th), The Hockey News (Jones, Drouin and MacKinnon are their top 3) don't have him top 4. Haven't seen McKeen's list. It'll be interesting to see where he lands on Bob Mackenzie's final list because that will tell us where some actual NHL scouts have him.

He's nowhere near being an Ovechkin type and I'm far from convinced he'll be the most 'elite' player available to us. He's actually more hyped on this board for some reason than he is by the scouting services. Guess some people bought into what robaur was selling. He looks like a faster, less skilled Rick Nash to me. Not sure why anybody thinks he'll be an Ovechkin or Malkin. Both of those guys were far more hyped in their draft years than Nichushkin is this year.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

My biggest fear is Feaster taking Nichushkin.

He doesn't really strike me as a Button/Weisbrod pick so I'm not too worried. Plus I think a team ahead of us may roll the dice on him.

If they do take him my concerns will be somewhat alleviated. But I'm guessing the team will downrank him for several reasons including the Russian factor and him playing wing. And I'm not convinced that everyone sees him as a default top 6-7 talent anyways. Like I said it'll be interesting to see what Bob Mackenzie's take on him is after talking to many NHL scouts.

Opinions always vary in the draft. The type of team that will have him high is the type of team that prioritizes size and speed far ahead of all other factors. The Lightning took players like him for years and got burned (Nikita Alexeev par example.) I think our team prioritizes hockey sense, competitiveness and skill.

Lindholm, Monahan and Nurse just seem more like our type of pick and fit our needs much better. I could be wrong, guess we'll see.

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Please no Rico Fata's or Tkacuzk's.

[dying4acup]

The descriptions of Nurse are of a better offensive and skating version of Regehr. Can't say no to that.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by SoulOfTheFlame

Please no Rico Fata's or Tkacuzk's.

Pretty sure the entire scouting staff has turned over since then. That was 15 years ago.

We're more likely to draft a player better than Backlund/Baertschi. Considering how good those two are looking these days I don't see much cause for concern or pessimism.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Pretty sure the entire scouting staff has turned over since then. That was 15 years ago.

We're more likely to draft a player better than Backlund/Baertschi. Considering how good those two are looking these days I don't see much cause for concern or pessimism.

I believe Todd Button was here for one, if not both of those picks.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

I believe Todd Button was here for one, if not both of those picks.

You're right, he was hired in the summer of 1997 and thus one of many amateur scouts for us in the 1998 draft. He only became our Director of Scouting in Fall 2001 so he has to take responsibility for the 2002 drafts and on.

There's no way we can pin the Fata pick just on Button, that wouldn't be fair considering his role.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by iggysback05

I'd be okay of we drafted Nurse. I'm tired of having a team full of choir boys. I like Nurse's size, toughness and swagger. This team has lacked a little bit of swagger for a long time.

Sounds like Phaneuf and I don't have a problem with that. Yeah, we could use Phaneuf 2.0.

[Jake]

With tonight going well for the Flames, it looks like a top 7 pick is highly probable. There are 7 prospects in this draft I really like. I'll be happy with any of MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan, or Nurse. In the unlikely event we don't get a top 7 pick, Nichushkin is a decent consolation at 8th.

What do people think of Fred Gauthier? Obviously not for the top 7, but potentially with the Blues or Pens picks. Not really impressive offensive numbers, especially in the Q, but you don't see many 6'4 200+ pound centres in the draft. I've seen him described as a good shutdown centre that has offensive upside. He started off the season scoring a lot, but cooled down. Apparently he doesn't fully utilize his size. Still, simply being 6'4 can prevent you from being pushed around. From what I've read, he has the potential to fill a couple needs on the Flames... size and centres.

Originally Posted by saillias

Sounds like Phaneuf and I don't have a problem with that. Yeah, we could use Phaneuf 2.0.

We could use a Phaneuf 1.0

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

You're right, he was hired in the summer of 1997 and thus one of many amateur scouts for us in the 1998 draft. He only became our Director of Scouting in Fall 2001 so he has to take responsibility for the 2002 drafts and on.

There's no way we can pin the Fata pick just on Button, that wouldn't be fair considering his role.

Agreed, just replying to the fact that the scouting department had been cleaned out since then.

I don't hate Button, but I don't see why he's so highly thought of when this organization has had so many draft busts. Obviously more than a couple of GMs like having him around, so he must be doing something right.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Jake

With tonight going well for the Flames, it looks like a top 7 pick is highly probable. There are 7 prospects in this draft I really like. I'll be happy with any of MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan, or Nurse. In the unlikely event we don't get a top 7 pick, Nichushkin is a decent consolation at 8th.

What do people think of Fred Gauthier? Obviously not for the top 7, but potentially with the Blues or Pens picks. Not really impressive offensive numbers, especially in the Q, but you don't see many 6'4 200+ pound centres in the draft. I've seen him described as a good shutdown centre that has offensive upside. He started off the season scoring a lot, but cooled down. Apparently he doesn't fully utilize his size. Still, simply being 6'4 can prevent you from being pushed around. From what I've read, he has the potential to fill a couple needs on the Flames... size and centres.



We could use a Phaneuf 1.0

I think he's a bigger Lombardi. Skills but no killer instinct.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

I don't hate Button, but I don't see why he's so highly thought of when this organization has had so many draft busts. Obviously more than a couple of GMs like having him around, so he must be doing something right.

Readling between the lines from what Feaster has said it sounds like Sutter may have steered some of Button's drafts by asking for players at particular positions, or emphasizing certain attributes that Button wouldn't necessarily have emphasized or emphasized particular regions and thus have ignored some solid prospects. In particular there were a lot of rumours in 2003 that Sutter wanted a defenseman badly and therefore we prioritized Phaneuf/Suter/Coburn over forwards that Button may have had ahead of them.

Feaster made a point of saying he has taken any restraints off the scouting staff and will let them draft their list without him interfering.

I'm guessing Button kept his own personal rankings for every year to show which players the scouting staff liked the most. His rankings must have been pretty good in retrospect or you'd think Feaster or Weisbrod would have axed him. No scouts are perfect obviously. And I think there was an adjustment period that needed to be made after the lockout and rules around obstruction were more heavily enforced. I think had they known the league was going to trend more towards skill and skating you wouldn't have seen a pick like Chucko.

And of course there is the fact that most people just get better at their jobs over time. Button has probably learned from many of his mistakes and is probably a better Head Scout than when he was first assigned the role.

Personally I don't have an issue with Button staying on especially given Feaster's comments about allowing them to do their job without outside parameters imposed on them. Our drafts in the last few years seem considerably better than any other period in our drafting since I became a fan of the team. Right now we're seeing the start of that with the good play of Brodie, Backlund, and Reinhart. Horak's good play also has to reflect well on our scouting as at first it seemed like he was a throw-in in the Erixon deal but he proved to be as valuable as the 2nd rounders IMO.

As fans our prospects are usually hyped but there is something a little more special about guys like Gaudreau, Gillies, Wotherspoon, etc than our typical mid-rounders of the past 15 years.

Hopefully Button and Weisbrod show that they are worthy of our faith in them!

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Readling between the lines from what Feaster has said it sounds like Sutter may have steered some of Button's drafts by asking for players at particular positions, or emphasizing certain attributes that Button wouldn't necessarily have emphasized or emphasized particular regions and thus have ignored some solid prospects. In particular there were a lot of rumours in 2003 that Sutter wanted a defenseman badly and therefore we prioritized Phaneuf/Suter/Coburn over forwards that Button may have had ahead of them.

Feaster made a point of saying he has taken any restraints off the scouting staff and will let them draft their list without him interfering.

I'm guessing Button kept his own personal rankings for every year to show which players the scouting staff liked the most. His rankings must have been pretty good in retrospect or you'd think Feaster or Weisbrod would have axed him. No scouts are perfect obviously. And I think there was an adjustment period that needed to be made after the lockout and rules around obstruction were more heavily enforced. I think had they known the league was going to trend more towards skill and skating you wouldn't have seen a pick like Chucko.

And of course there is the fact that most people just get better at their jobs over time. Button has probably learned from many of his mistakes and is probably a better Head Scout than when he was first assigned the role.

Personally I don't have an issue with Button staying on especially given Feaster's comments about allowing them to do their job without outside parameters imposed on them. Our drafts in the last few years seem considerably better than any other period in our drafting since I became a fan of the team. Right now we're seeing the start of that with the good play of Brodie, Backlund, and Reinhart. Horak's good play also has to reflect well on our scouting as at first it seemed like he was a throw-in in the Erixon deal but he proved to be as valuable as the 2nd rounders IMO.

As fans our prospects are usually hyped but there is something a little more special about guys like Gaudreau, Gillies, Wotherspoon, etc than our typical mid-rounders of the past 15 years.

Hopefully Button and Weisbrod show that they are worthy of our faith in them!

Figured that to be the case, evidenced by the fact that he is still around. But I was under the impression that Sutter coveted Mike Richards, and Dion was his second choice.

[kehatch]

For our last two:

Win Both - Select 6 to 12
Win One - Select 4 to 7
Win None - Select 3 to 7