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VladtheImpaler · 08-31-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

There's a ton of examples through history, which is sort of why I found Vlad's statement to the contrary a little confusing.

List them. Deliberate state policy to exterminate another people in their entirety.

peter12 · 08-31-2009, 01:33 PM

The Holocaust was the first mechanized genocide in human history. Modern science and technology being brought to bear upon the entire organized elimination of a group of people.

nik- · 08-31-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

What about them? Was there a policy to exterminate them?

I would consider expansion into their territory and a hostile stance towards them a policy, yes.

VladtheImpaler · 08-31-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

The Holocaust was the first mechanized genocide in human history. Modern science and technology being brought to bear upon the entire organized elimination of a group of people.

Very concise and perfect summary.

VladtheImpaler · 08-31-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

I would consider expansion into their territory and a hostile stance towards them a policy, yes.

Are you joking? Every war is hostile. There was no British/French/US/Canadian policy to exterminate them. If there was, we would not need to offer a $500M bribe to connect Anderson to Sarcee... Do you not understand the difference?

nik- · 08-31-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

List them. Deliberate state policy to exterminate another people in their entirety.

This is what you wrote, and what I responded to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

That would also be because, until Rwanda, the Holocaust was the only instance of someone specifically targetting a racial group for extermination.

VladtheImpaler · 08-31-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

This is what you wrote, and what I responded to.

But you were wrong, so I am still waiting...

nik- · 08-31-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Are you joking? Every war is hostile. There was no British/French/US/Canadian policy to exterminate them. If there was, we would not need to offer a $500M bribe to connect Anderson to Sarcee... Do you not understand the difference?

You're defining it differently now. I see a group of people targetting a specific group of people based on race or religion and mass killing them as a genocide.

Now you're trying to pin State sanctioning on it, which wasn't in your original statement. Again, I responded to your original statement and now you're moving your retorts in a different direction.

peter12 · 08-31-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Are you joking? Every war is hostile. There was no British/French/US/Canadian policy to exterminate them. If there was, we would not need to offer a $500M bribe to connect Anderson to Sarcee... Do you not understand the difference?

I think at times there was an American policy to exterminate certain groups of Indians in certain regions. This normally was done through raids or mass murders, like the one at Wounded Knee. As well, comments by many American leaders, both political and military, point to severe government animosity toward local Indians.

peter12 · 08-31-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

I would consider expansion into their territory and a hostile stance towards them a policy, yes.

Far too broad. Is Canada engaged in a campaign of genocide against the Afghans?

nik- · 08-31-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

But you were wrong, so I am still waiting...

lol what?

How am I wrong. Look at what you wrote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

That would also be because, until Rwanda, the Holocaust was the only instance of someone specifically targetting a racial group for extermination.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

But since you want more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

http://www.historyplace.com/worldhis...ide/index.html

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/...950/id/1421950

nik- · 08-31-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

Far too broad. Is Canada engaged in a campaign of genocide against the Afghans?

Fair enough response in technical terms, but the spirit of these two conflicts and of the killing involved is much different no?

peter12 · 08-31-2009, 01:43 PM

Yeah, sadly, genocide is as natural a human activity as you can get. Archaeologists have uncovered mass graves of aboriginal bands completely wiped out by their enemies.

carom · 08-31-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

The Holocaust was the first mechanized genocide in human history. Modern science and technology being brought to bear upon the entire organized elimination of a group of people.

Im pretty sure that the Armenian Genocide happend first (April 24, 1915, debateable).

http://genocide-museum.am/eng/online_exhibition_5.php

peter12 · 08-31-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

Fair enough response in technical terms, but the spirit of these two conflicts and of the killing involved is much different no?

That's the heart of a people's slide into genocide, a complete degradation of spirit or perhaps culture. One of the 20th century's biggest questions is how the Germans, Europe's most educated people, were able to condone and cooperate with a regime that was created with the express purpose of mass murder.

peter12 · 08-31-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carom

Im pretty sure that the Armenian Genocide happend first (April 24, 1915, debateable).

http://genocide-museum.am/eng/online_exhibition_5.php

Did you read my post? Jews were loaded into cattle cars on a precise train schedule where they were taken to death factories, where they were searched, looted, and then killed by poison gas.

This is mechanical genocide. The dark side of our modern times.

carom · 08-31-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

Did you read my post? Jews were loaded into cattle cars on a precise train schedule where they were taken to death factories, where they were searched, looted, and then killed by poison gas.

This is mechanical genocide. The dark side of our modern times.

What are you a Turk? Just Kidding. I dont know enough about the specifics and it is all the same to me wheather they had 'modern technology' or not. It is all bad anyway you put it.
It is an exercise in futility for me to try to define and rate such horrible things.

Calgaryborn · 08-31-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

While you make a point, living in a city with a fairly high Jewish population, I have to say though often times they themselves don't seem to be too fond or welcoming of those not part of their community (especially the Hasids here, who have gotten into a few riots over the years with the Blacks).

I think a lot of backlash comes from the fact that they can often appear as if they want to exclude anyone not part of their community. Personally, I find the whole notion of Jews demanding their kids to marry Jews somewhat insulting and discriminatory. My co-worker's family more or less disowned her for living with a Catholic dude....just goes to show that Jews are just as racist and ######ed as the rest of us.

Ya I haven't run into many Jews in the Kootenays and when I have their limited numbers have probably forced them to interact with non-Jews more readily. It's like my experience with black people. I've only seen 5 or 6 black people in the valley on a regular enough basis to assume they live here. Of those 6 people I know 3 by name and all three of them married(or with) whites. All of them are friendly, law abiding, and probably hard working. Yet I know if my experiences had been less positive my general opinion of all of them would no doubt be different.

The marriage thing in and of itself wouldn't bother me. I don't think you should disown a child for marrying outside of your faith but, I would strongly encourage anyone who has an active faith to marry someone of like mind. It makes things a lot easier.

jammies · 08-31-2009, 02:32 PM

The ideal of the Holocaust is that it was a unique event, and that humanity would learn to never let it happen again.

The reality is that what humanity learned is not to keep meticulous records of your genocides in case you have to stand trial for them later.

Tron_fdc · 08-31-2009, 04:18 PM

I think it has a lot to do with people of various races/religions wanting to preserve what they can of their heritage, so they try to "recommend" that their kids marry within their community.

Which sucks for me, seeing as I'm a sheep thieving drunk irishman. I can't WAIT until I get to meet and marry some gullible, rich , hot, jewish/black/east indian/latino broad and pollute her genes.