If you were 45, got laid off and couldn't find a decent job in your profession for years then you weren't very good at your job in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Shazam
Do you honestly believe this?
Well, in a healthy labour market, Cowboy's sentiment mostly rings true. And, by most standards, Calgary is still in a pretty healthy labour market. But I wouldn't want to be an Automotive Engineer living in Detroit right now.
This is coming from a perspective of someone who does hiring.
I see those kids (GEN Y) walk through the doors where I work each and everyday, they sit down, interview with me and 95% of them walk out without a job, I'm getting over 100 applications a week and maybe hiring 3 people each week?
Most of them walk into interviews completely unprepared, under dressed and with a sense of entitlement. Sure, this might be retail, but there is a hell of a lot of competition for work.
And this is coming from someone who is Generation Y and I do try to go out of my way to hire these sorts of people, because they are the future of our company. Simply put, most of them just can't cut it.
Why hire them when they want every Friday, Saturday and Sunday off when I can find plenty of new Canadians who are excellent workers, desperate and willing to work their ass off for us? And they show up prepared and well dressed.
Part of it boils down to schools and part to the parents. No one has bothered to teach these kids how to go find a job. You can tell most of them have never done a mock interview. Hell, they haven't bothered to proof read their resumes before they fire them off.
It wont matter really to most of them, because they don't need to work anyways. Their parents were the ones making them look for a job in the first place.
Mommy and Daddy will simply look sympathetically at them, tell them they tried their best, tell them that it wasn't their fault that they couldn't find a job and let them have the summer off; instead of actually realizing their kid is an epic failure and actually trying to instill some work ethic into them, helping them get a job in the future. I don't really see too much changing any time soon.
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Some great discussion in this thread. Better discussion in the thread than the points made in the original article, actually.
I don't see the sense of entitlement as that new a thing, although in previous generations, unions played a greater role in perpetuating this sense of entitlement: the one requirement in achieving an ever increasing level of income and personal security was staying at the same job. Union structure took care of the rest. Of course, because unions care about their own self-preservation, they worked harder for achieving greater salaries more than any other benefit. Even amongst non-unionized positions, this idea of 'paying your dues' in a job was still prevalent.
Now, we're seeing a post-union mentality, where individuals are much more responsible for their own negotiations and setting their priorities. Do they really have that much of a sense of entitlement? Is bouncing around from job to job really a sign of a sense of entitlement, or merely self-interest over allegiance to a company? Is the young individual who simply doesn't work hard and apply themselves and as a result cannot find a high paying job not just someone who's chosen a lack of responsibility and less effort over financial security?
I just don't hear some great number of 20-somethingers complaining about their current situation. Most are aware that their path (whether it's to slack through life or to ruthlessly jump from one opportunity to the next) is their own choice and has repurcutions. What I do see is an older generation who is seeing these choices and assuming that they are choices made in ignorance; some are, but certainly not all.
It is in a lot of cases.
GEN Y from my personal experience demands more from their employers than anyone else - you see that with schedule setting, time off, vacations, raises, etc - they expect a lot without giving a lot back in return. A great deal of them also take the easy way out when it comes to leaving jobs - instead of trying to solve problems if something isn't going their way they just pack up and go. I don't see many Gen Y'ers try to "tough it out".
3 months here, 2 months there, another 3 months here...
And they'll have the gaul to put it all on their resume?
Me: "So why did you leave this job?"
Them: "Oh, I had a personal conflict with the manager."
Me: "And this one?"
Them: "Oh, same thing - yeah, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to call them."
GEN Y from my personal experience demands more from their employers than anyone else - you see that with schedule setting, time off, vacations, raises, etc - they expect a lot without giving a lot back in return. A great deal of them also take the easy way out when it comes to leaving jobs - instead of trying to solve problems if something isn't going their way they just pack up and go. I don't see many Gen Y'ers try to "tough it out".
3 months here, 2 months there, another 3 months here...
And they'll have the gaul to put it all on their resume?
Me: "So why did you leave this job?"
Them: "Oh, I had a personal conflict with the manager."
Me: "And this one?"
Them: "Oh, same thing - yeah, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to call them."
Yeah, I wonder who the problem really is .
I have to disagree with this. Buying power for minimum wage workers hasn't been this low in a long time.
Plus employers expect employees to work all sorts of random BS part time shifts. Try working split shifts sometime.
I think a big part of the problem is corporate employers. Some are great but others don't know how to build an employee/employer relationship. The employer is concerned with the bottom line, and the employees learn that same attitude.
Caramon as a hirer I'm guessing you have a salary job that is 9-5. Try working random shifts and see how much it disrupts every part of your life. That doesn't even take into account the minimum wage lifestyle you have to lead (This retail job probably leaves you with ~1200/mnth after taxes?)
Well, in a healthy labour market, Cowboy's sentiment mostly rings true. And, by most standards, Calgary is still in a pretty healthy labour market. But I wouldn't want to be an Automotive Engineer living in Detroit right now.
A healthy labour market being one where there's not enough supply of workers?
This is coming from a perspective of someone who does hiring.
I see those kids (GEN Y) walk through the doors where I work each and everyday, they sit down, interview with me and 95% of them walk out without a job, I'm getting over 100 applications a week and maybe hiring 3 people each week?
Most of them walk into interviews completely unprepared, under dressed and with a sense of entitlement. Sure, this might be retail, but there is a hell of a lot of competition for work.
And this is coming from someone who is Generation Y and I do try to go out of my way to hire these sorts of people, because they are the future of our company. Simply put, most of them just can't cut it.
Why hire them when they want every Friday, Saturday and Sunday off when I can find plenty of new Canadians who are excellent workers, desperate and willing to work their ass off for us? And they show up prepared and well dressed.
Part of it boils down to schools and part to the parents. No one has bothered to teach these kids how to go find a job. You can tell most of them have never done a mock interview. Hell, they haven't bothered to proof read their resumes before they fire them off.
It wont matter really to most of them, because they don't need to work anyways. Their parents were the ones making them look for a job in the first place.
Mommy and Daddy will simply look sympathetically at them, tell them they tried their best, tell them that it wasn't their fault that they couldn't find a job and let them have the summer off; instead of actually realizing their kid is an epic failure and actually trying to instill some work ethic into them, helping them get a job in the future. I don't really see too much changing any time soon.
Meh. Having done more job interviews than I care to, I find that 95% of applicants are useless. Doesn't matter what age. Most people drift through life.
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I have to disagree with this. Buying power for minimum wage workers hasn't been this low in a long time.
Plus employers expect employees to work all sorts of random BS part time shifts. Try working split shifts sometime.
I think a big part of the problem is corporate employers. Some are great but others don't know how to build an employee/employer relationship. The employer is concerned with the bottom line, and the employees learn that same attitude.
Caramon as a hirer I'm guessing you have a salary job that is 9-5. Try working random shifts and see how much it disrupts every part of your life. That doesn't even take into account the minimum wage lifestyle you have to lead (This retail job probably leaves you with ~1200/mnth after taxes?)
9:30-6:30 is my typical shift + occasional weekends and I set my own schedule (within reason, I chose my days, but not the hours) and yeah, I am salary.
Of course, I'd rather work 7-3:30 or 8-4:30. But, I have also worked retail/restaurant for 7+ years in total, all with random scheduling, especially through school. I do know what it is like and I can sympathize. That would be about the correct amount of income (starting wage of course), but you do get a lot of room to grow.
It is hard for employers in some cases to play favorites, especially in ours with regards to our union. But we do try to help you out as much as we can, especially when you prove yourself to be a good employee. Usually there is a feeling out period of about 2-3 months, but after that there is a bit of leeway given (under the table of course) if you are good and you've proved yourself.
I mean, I don't really want to get too much into where I work - but it is unionized, so it isn't all that bad with regards to schedules. You know them well in advance (no splits!), your wages/raises are all fixed and based on the amount of hours you work.
But when applying for said retail job, you should know that - especially when this one that you are applying for is your 5th or 6th one. If you can't handle random shifts + random hours, stop applying for places and quitting after a couple months over and over again.
I don't think it is that bad. When I started working 11 years ago (when I was 15), I made 4.50 an hour at DQ, of course it wasn't F/T. My buying power was probably less or on par at that wage than it would be @ min now. Most retail (and the jobs I hire for now) start higher (we start ~3$ higher above min).
Meh. Having done more job interviews than I care to, I find that 95% of applicants are useless. Doesn't matter what age. Most people drift through life.
I'm not hiring for really professional jobs here.
If you have a good work ethic and attitude, just about anyone should be able to succeed at the majority of entry level jobs, unless you have some sort of disability/handicap.
Actually, that isn't even fair to say. I've had plenty of challenged workers who work even harder than the Gen Ys we've managed to employ. Sometimes I wonder if these guys quit because someone who is special needs is embarrassing them by doing a better job.
If you have a good work ethic and attitude, just about anyone should be able to succeed at the majority of entry level jobs, unless you have some sort of disability/handicap.
Nope. Entry level jobs are actually where most employers get to weed out the imbeciles.
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Actually, that isn't even fair to say. I've had plenty of challenged workers who work even harder than the Gen Ys we've managed to employ. Sometimes I wonder if these guys quit because someone who is special needs is embarrassing them by doing a better job.
Of course. Challenged people realize their situation. Losers don't.
I will tell you right now: As you get older, if you keep hiring people, you'll find that the bell curve is well maintained.
Caramon as a hirer I'm guessing you have a salary job that is 9-5. Try working random shifts and see how much it disrupts every part of your life. That doesn't even take into account the minimum wage lifestyle you have to lead (This retail job probably leaves you with ~1200/mnth after taxes?)
Who doesn't have a few years of that kind of work in their background?
Split shifts, multiple jobs, paying off your student loans on mimium wage...these are normal things until you work hard enough, long enough to catch a break.
My dad is giving me a bunch of money to go travelling around Europe for a year or two and when I come back I can go work for him and probably take over his company and run it into the ground in five years when he retires (if I want to). Eat it, bitches.
There, FTFY.
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Who doesn't have a few years of that kind of work in their background?
Split shifts, multiple jobs, paying off your student loans on mimium wage...these are normal things until you work hard enough, long enough to catch a break.
I realize this, I'm just saying have some sympathy for the people who do these jobs. How often do I still see people flip out at a person making minimum wage over store policies?
If you are offering a job that is going to attract kids and the unemployable at the very least appreciate that. There is no need to look down on the people who do those jobs.
I just find that there is this bizarre sense among employers that you own someone who makes minimum wage for the very fact they make minimum wage. Minimum wage in this day and age is very little. It's okay for highschool kids who are looking for weekend money, but living off of it just sucks. Being treated like on top of that is totally not needed.
Of course, that's how you pay your way through school.
Oh wait... pay your way through school... generation gap reared its ugly head there.
Strange, most I know had to pay their way through school. I worked 2 jobs with 5 classes to get through school. But thanks to the increases in the cost schooling this was not even close to good enough. I also get rewarded with a nice big student loan, which is fine if the federal gov't wasn't making a mint off of the interest for that particular loan. Alberta lowered its student loan interest rate to about 3% or maybe even less, where the federal government is still 5-6%.
Combine this with the fact that with inflation, starting wages haven't really increased in the past 20 years. However the prices for rent/housing have increased dramatically means that many who are just starting out are in much worse shape than those starting out 20 years ago.
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Strange, most I know had to pay their way through school. I worked 2 jobs with 5 classes to get through school. But thanks to the increases in the cost schooling this was not even close to good enough. I also get rewarded with a nice big student loan, which is fine if the federal gov't wasn't making a mint off of the interest for that particular loan. Alberta lowered its student loan interest rate to about 3% or maybe even less, where the federal government is still 5-6%.
Combine this with the fact that with inflation, starting wages haven't really increased in the past 20 years. However the prices for rent/housing have increased dramatically means that many who are just starting out are in much worse shape than those starting out 20 years ago.
I worked through school with no debt, but it took me 5 1/2 years instead of 4, increasing my total costs with the annual tuition increases. So good for you, man.
I got student loans for college and accepted them gladly. Then I spent three years eating a lot of Ichiban and Mac and Cheese after I graduated so I could retire that loan as fast as I could.
I'm sure that diet has taken 10 years off of my life.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Strange, most I know had to pay their way through school. I worked 2 jobs with 5 classes to get through school. But thanks to the increases in the cost schooling this was not even close to good enough. I also get rewarded with a nice big student loan, which is fine if the federal gov't wasn't making a mint off of the interest for that particular loan. Alberta lowered its student loan interest rate to about 3% or maybe even less, where the federal government is still 5-6%.
Seriously, give the loans office a call and see if they'll lower the interest rate.
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