Dad beheads son for Jesus.

[flylock shox]

I can't believe this thread turned into another religion vs. atheism argument.

Schizophrenia, particularly paranoid schizophrenia, is characterized by powerful delusions and hallucinations. A person with schizophrenia isn't in a position to reason their way out of the disease because they're not in a mental state to distinguish the reasonable from the unreasonable. To a schizophrenic, delusions and hallucinations are as real as anything else. A God, or other figure, simply serves as a focal point for delusions, and an explanation for the inexplicable things which a schizophrenic experiences. Other powerful figures, such as the government, are also typical focal points.

I'm an atheist, but if I heard powerful voices in my head telling me to do things, and saw things that would have seemed impossible to me before, and I really believed those things were real because, to me, they were real, then I might believe it was God speaking to me because, frankly, that explanation is every bit as rational as any other explanation I might be able to come up with. Rational thought is not an option for people suffering from severe mental disorders, and choosing between religion and non-belief isn't something a schizophrenic can do in any rational way.

It's strange how few people are able to conceive of what it might be like to have a disease of the mind. We've seen that in several threads about depression and suicide before. Perhaps part of the difficulty is that so many people are used to thinking in terms of rationality and logic, and aren't particularly good at empathizing with others.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Locke

The one thing I take issue with, was that the purpose was not to 'mock.' I wasn't making fun of anyone in particular and I wasnt out to offend, although I fully admit that many would be offended, thems the breaks, sometimes life throws you curveballs.

You totally were intent on mocking, you were just mocking a position rather than a particular person. Which is fine IMO.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I can't believe this thread turned into another religion vs. atheism argument.

Schizophrenia, particularly paranoid schizophrenia, is characterized by powerful delusions and hallucinations. A person with schizophrenia isn't in a position to reason their way out of the disease because they're not in a mental state to distinguish the reasonable from the unreasonable. To a schizophrenic, delusions and hallucinations are as real as anything else. A God, or other figure, simply serves as a focal point for delusions, and an explanation for the inexplicable things which a schizophrenic experiences. Other powerful figures, such as the government, are also typical focal points.

I'm an atheist, but if I heard powerful voices in my head telling me to do things, and saw things that would have seemed impossible to me before, and I really believed those things were real because, to me, they were real, then I might believe it was God speaking to me because, frankly, that explanation is every bit as rational as any other explanation I might be able to come up with. Rational thought is not an option for people suffering from severe mental disorders, and choosing between religion and non-belief isn't something a schizophrenic can do in any rational way.

It's strange how few people are able to conceive of what it might be like to have a disease of the mind. We've seen that in several threads about depression and suicide before. Perhaps part of the difficulty is that so many people are used to thinking in terms of rationality and logic, and aren't particularly good at empathizing with others.

I completely agree with you on this....however, we are talking about a man who was part of the military, got married, had a child and a fulltime job. Now I know people who have this disease, and I know they battle ALL of the time to keep things under control. These people have regular visits with the medical establishment to check their progress or lack thereof. Its the same when anyone has a disease...you fight like hell to maintain a form of normalcy...whatever that might be. So a married man fighting this disease with a wife who is supposedly normal.
In one of the articles it says this....

"Hagerman says it was his mission to kill his son, even though his wife, Shirley, begged him not to."

So then should the responsibility have fallen on the shoulders of his wife to either call the cops and report her husband, call the mans Doctor and report that his meds were not working, or simply grab the boy and run for the hills? If it were me there wouldnt be a hope in hell that anyone would hurt my kids without killing me first.
Hagerman also says...

....what he did makes sense to him, even though it may never make sense to anyone else.
"It was a hard decision for me to make because I knew that me doing it was going to cause me to lose my life," Hagerman said.

This means that he had been pondering the situation for some time. Based on the website posts and what he said to his wife it appears that it was certainly premeditated.

and finally Hagerman says...

He had no problem admitting what he did and why he did it.

Now Im no expert on this disease, not by a longshot, but those I know who battle it suggest that when they were delusional their memory of event(s) were clouded to say the least.

When asked during a jailhouse interview, " When you picked up the knife, what were you thinking you were going to do with it?" Hagerman responded, "I was going to end his life."

Sounds like his recall of the event after he was captured and put in jail is pretty clear.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by photon

You totally were intent on mocking, you were just mocking a position rather than a particular person. Which is fine IMO.

In that sense yes, you're right. I just tried to address the same issue in a different way. Sometimes it forces people to analyze and interpret a situation differently.

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

God, I love Locke.

Green text?

[Thunderball]

I'm no expert on mental illness either, but being able to recollect the issue and seeing it as logical does not discount total mental dysfunction or sociopathy. The guy was/is totally messed in the head. Probably a similar illness that "Ice Man" Kuklinski must suffer from. Most mentally ill people go undiagnosed before their first psychotic episode, that sadly, leaves a victim or victims in its wake. Whether or not he thought the voice in his head was God, Buddha, the Cookie Monster or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is completely immaterial.

Even if religion was the "motive" for this disgusting act, it really can't be used as any meaningful evidence against religion. To use a vulgar example, its essentially like saying if a guy rapes a pretty woman dressed provocatively, rather than the fact that he is totally screwed in the head, using it as a argument for victorian era values, and saying that its a sign that society has become too outwardly sexual and its her fault for "leading him on" by dressing like "a whore"... completely dismisses the real issue for something that is only superficially related.

Religion has enough inherent flaws and enough stupid sane people to damage its credibility, lets not try to drag in the psychopaths.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by simonsays

...Now that we understand how these threads work I just have one simple question: Why doesn't the Christian Internet come with a sarcasm detector? I mean you guys probably pay about the same, so why aren't you getting all the features?

Allow me to present, The Wittenburg door.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Allow me to present, The Wittenburg door.

Interesting, thanks for the link.

Guh, don't even get me started on Benny Hinn.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by photon

...Guh, don't even get me started on Benny Hinn.

Did you know that he is from Toronto (sort of)? We could make a gross generalization (it is kind of fitting for this thread) from this and insist that all "Torontonians" are classless, manipulative and delusional. This is a stereotype that I can get behind!

[photon]

Lol! Even I wouldn't do that to Tonontonians I don't think.

[Textcritic]

At this point I should also post a link to a blog owned and operated by a friend of mine called Scotteriology. Check out his "Revolutionary Exegesis of Genesis 15:6" about halfway down the page.

[Finny61]

hey if you go one article below, is that not Desmond from Lost?

[photon]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

At this point I should also post a link to a blog owned and operated by a friend of mine called Scotteriology. Check out his "Revolutionary Exegesis of Genesis 15:6" about halfway down the page.

That. Is. Awesome.

lol @ Jeeps

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by photon

That. Is. Awesome.

lol @ Jeeps

Yeah.

Sucks to be Abraham...sucker.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Finny61

hey if you go one article below, is that not Desmond from Lost?

Hey! What's he doing there!