Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[photon]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I thought that was the message of the LAST election!

We can't just have an election every time these big babies can't work together.

This time we mean it!

Maybe we can shame them into it. We need someone with deep pockets so we can launch a negative attack ad.

Something with shots of crying babies and "It's my ball, you can't govern with it, I want to." Kids slap fighting. Nelson going "Ha Ha".

Fade to black.

Cool announcer voice, "Selfish politicians, can we please get some peace and quiet for 5 minutes to try and figure out how we're going to not lose our shirts?"

Maybe we should try and do it viral on youtube.

[browna]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

"The New Democrats and Bloc Quebecois had a secret plan to form a coalition party well before the opposition's uproar over the government's fiscal update, CTV News has learned."

I like too how Layton talks about "political games" of Harper, when he's gleefulling, smugly, and in the used car dealer voice of his, making a deal over the past 4-6 weeks with the party that wants to split up the country.

I don't know how anyone, except for the most renegade of NDP'er, could listen to these words and think this is a good idea, nevermind its been done over the past 6 weeks.

Don't know how anyone could trust another word that comes out of that man's mouth with such a hidden agenda that he's willing to sell out for personal gain.

The Liberals would be smart to distance themselves to this idiot, even if it means losing this battle at this point. Whichever Liberal leader agrees to hop into bed with Layton means pretty much zero ad dollars spent for the Conservatives in a Dec/Jan election...they just have to play those transcripts over and over and showcase for the country what kind of idiot would have even the smallest percentage of say in running the country, if were elected.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Well then give someone a majority! Minority Governments rarely work. Why is it so difficult to realize that the only way this crap is going to end is to just give someone a majority?

Canadians brought this on ourselves in the last election. The PCs told us why they called the election, and people didn't believe them. "It's OK" we said. "You can work together" we said.

Well now we find out exactly how greedy and power hungry the Socialists and Separatists really are. Now it's time to show up, come together and just pick a single friggin party to Govern.

Yes you're right. Canadians said that the last term of Harper was pretty stable, not much wrong with it and we don't like the liberal leader. And yet they still didn't vote Harper in on a majority.
Minority governments, I believe, are something that happens routinely in europe all the time, over and over. Maybe it's something that's affecting us here now with increasingly polarized populaces. Sure we can reach for majorities, but blaming the citizens for leaders that can't deliver the goods (and lets remember Haper was/is in power, had his chance to shine) isn't necessarily the right angle IMO.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by browna

I like too how Layton talks about "political games" of Harper, when he's gleefulling, smugly, and in the used car dealer voice of his, making a deal over the past 4-6 weeks with the party that wants to split up the country.

I don't know how anyone, except for the most renegade of NDP'er, could listen to these words and think this is a good idea, nevermind its been done over the past 6 weeks.

Don't know how anyone could trust another word that comes out of that man's mouth with such a hidden agenda that he's willing to sell out for personal gain.

The Liberals would be smart to distance themselves to this idiot, even if it means losing this battle at this point. Whichever Liberal leader agrees to hop into bed with Layton means pretty much zero ad dollars spent for the Conservatives in a Dec/Jan election...they just have to play those transcripts over and over and showcase for the country what kind of idiot would have even the smallest percentage of say in running the country, if were elected.

Of course this re-iteration of the Liberal party won't distance themselves from the NDP and this scheme. This is a party that will do absolutely anything to gain and stay in power.

They also know that as a political party they are pretty much f$$ked in every little way. They have no money, they have no popularity, they're on the verge of becoming a political punchline, so they might as well seize power in any way and hope they can avoid an election, probably until they pass a law that refills the Liberal and NDP bank accounts.

[greyshep]

What a disgusting display of selfishness by the Liberals and NDP. I cannot believe we may be forced to go through another election because they cant just shut up and let a government function for a change.

Nice timing, throw the government into further turmoil during a challenging economic time. What a bunch of asshats. I hope the Libs/NDP get whats coming to them. They have gone way over the top this time.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Yes you're right. Canadians said that the last term of Harper was pretty stable, not much wrong with it and we don't like the liberal leader. And yet they still didn't vote Harper in on a majority.
Minority governments, I believe, are something that happens routinely in europe all the time, over and over. Maybe it's something that's affecting us here now with increasingly polarized populaces. Sure we can reach for majorities, but blaming the citizens for leaders that can't deliver the goods (and lets remember Haper was/is in power, had his chance to shine) isn't necessarily the right angle IMO.

I'm not exactly blaming Canadians, per say. My point is that we can't have it both ways. We can't keep electing a minority Government AND be upset when they refuse to work together. Isn't that kinda like saying, "We're not going to give the Cup to either team, so Detroit and Pittsburgh are just going to have to learn how to share it."

Edit: Not the world's greatest metaphor, I know. It's late. Work with me here.

[J pold]

Ugh this is awful just awful...

[peter12]

It's funny that the only parties that have shown they have a "hidden agenda" is the NDP and the Liberals. So the next time either one of them brings it up again about the big evil Conservative agenda to chain women to stoves and allow oil companies to burn and destroy our forests, we can slap them in the face.

[ikaris]

I just don't see how the Liberals could benefit from this. Maybe it's more posturing trying to force the Conservatives to concede more? (Maybe I'm just hoping it is so we don't have to deal with the alternative?)

We'll all find out soon enough.

[CaptainCrunch]

If this coalition thing happens, its going to take two days for Parliament to become unworkable.

If any of you think that the Conservatives won't try to poison this coalition and find a way to destroy it your crazy.

I almost welcome this to happen just because it will be an interesting thing to see happen. And we'll all have lots of time to watch it as we fill in our EI forms and sit on our couches.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's funny that the only parties that have shown they have a "hidden agenda" is the NDP and the Liberals.

Achieving power isn't a "hidden agenda." It's an "agenda." Every party has it--which is why every party does the same things to get it. It's our system, like it or lump it--and FWIW, I don't like it any more than you do, I don't think--though perhaps for different reasons. (I think this is a huge political mistake--and I was hopeful when it looked like Ignatieff wouldn't go along)

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by photon

This time we mean it!

Maybe we can shame them into it. We need someone with deep pockets so we can launch a negative attack ad.

Something with shots of crying babies and "It's my ball, you can't govern with it, I want to." Kids slap fighting. Nelson going "Ha Ha".

Fade to black.

Cool announcer voice, "Selfish politicians, can we please get some peace and quiet for 5 minutes to try and figure out how we're going to not lose our shirts?"

Maybe we should try and do it viral on youtube.

I like that idea. Get on it, CP!

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Achieving power isn't a "hidden agenda." It's an "agenda." Every party has it--which is why every party does the same things to get it. It's our system, like it or lump it--and FWIW, I don't like it any more than you do, I don't think--though perhaps for different reasons. (I think this is a huge political mistake--and I was hopeful when it looked like Ignatieff wouldn't go along)

I think back-room discussions with a separatist party days after an election is finished amounts to a hidden agenda. Meeting with Big Labour elites for support is hidden agenda.

[C_Rush]

[browna]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

(I think this is a huge political mistake--and I was hopeful when it looked like Ignatieff wouldn't go along)

Will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow morning. With thus stuff seeming to come out this evening and everything moving so quick today, the backlash and subsequent fumbling for answers by Layton tomorrow as he tries to back up (most likely his whole argument will beclaiming the Conservatives did something illegal) could/should put a whole lot of heat and negative press on this whole situation and coaltion.

As I said, hopefully Ignatieff would then reevaluate his role in this, and the Liberal party as a whole realize the complete inapporpriateness of this manuever by Layton> He should understand then that him attaching himself in any way shape or form to this "deal" or Layton, would provide no short or long term benefits to the country, his party, or his own personal agenda, certainly as in pertains to future leadership of that party, and distance himself quickly.

[You Need a Thneed]

Haven't read the whole thread, but the Liberals and the NDP are really shooting themselves in the foot. If they force an election, the conservatives are going to come out with a majority. If they form a coalition, the coalition will topple within the month (probobly won't be able to get anything done at all), forcing another election, which the conservatives will come out with an easy majority.

I don't understand how the Liberals and NDPs could form a coalition when they don't have as many seats together as the Conservatives have. The Bloc would have to be part of the coalition as well, and we all know that that's not going to happen.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by browna

Somewhat lost in this, how are Johhny Punchclock and Sally Housecoat going to react to another election in a month or less?

Even if they didn't vote last time, I think you'll get a higher turnout this time, and I'm guessing most of its going to be a protest vote to get this settled (yes, thats a simplified statement) and get on with things, once and for all.

I fear the opposite. Canadians may stay home in record numbers.

This has all the dignity of celebrity tv mud wrestling, and everyone of the fat fatas is going to get dirty.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

I fear the opposite. Canadians may stay home in record numbers.

This has all the dignity of celebrity tv mud wrestling, and everyone of the fat fatas is going to get dirty.

If they stay home yet again, and exercise their apathy in this manner yet again, then they deserve exactly what they have right now.

[jammies]

I'm not a fan of the NDP by any means but the term "Dippers" sounds rather condescending. Just sayin'.

I doubt very much the Governor-General is going to allow a Government coalition that has less MPs than the Opposition. Either the Bloc formally joins the coalition or it is going to be still-born; talk about an NDP/Liberal alliance is pipe dreams.

Put it this way - if the Liberals had elected 120 seats on their own, and the NDP had none, if the government was defeated do you think they should be able to nominate their own PM despite the Conservatives having 20 more seats? In a parliamentary democracy, if there is no majority then the LARGEST minority party/coalition becomes the government - there is no prize for 2nd place. How can you propose to have the confidence of the House if you are already starting every piece of legislation from 20 seats back?

edit - To make this argument more clear, the telling point is that the Bloc will not have any ministers, which to me signifies that they are NOT going to be part of the government in any meaningful sense; it seems that the coalition is trying to include the Bloc as part of their claim to become the government, but at the same time is distancing that government from the Bloc in an effort to downplay the influence the Bloc will have.

Well, you can't have it both ways - either the Bloc is part of the coalition, and should have a proportionate share of the power, or it isn't part of the coalition, and the NDP/Liberals do not have the confidence of the House. Duceppe is willing to "join" this coalition in this fashion as it furthers his not-so-hidden agenda to prove Canada doesn't work; if the Governor-General lets this farce go through, he is going to have some powerful ammunition no matter what happens from then on.

[Jagger]

<Sigh> I'm finally going to do it. I have to. This is complete BS of the highest order. I've always actively followed Canadian politics since moving here in 1992 but have not been able to really have a say. That's going to change right now.

What am I going to do, you ask? Fill out my Citizenship forms and become a bone-fide Canadian, that's what. I've lived in this fine country for over 16 years now, I'm raising my four Canadian children here, pay a huge amount in taxes, due to a good job, but I have no say in who runs the place. That's got to stop. I'm proud to be British, I really am, but I 'feel' Canadian now too. I love this country and I deeply care about it's affairs. I see this political BS as the final straw for me. I want the right to vote. Too few people voiced their opinion in the last election and look where it got us. It might have been different had others utilized their right to vote. I want that right and I will use it gladly and willingly whenever called on to do so.

Watch this space. This might take a while but it will be worth it to be able to honestly tell these politicians what I think of them!

Oh, and thanks for all of the opinions here. CP is great for that!