Beijing Olympics Thread

[octothorp]

I think Alex Baumann is a pretty good mind to lead the Olympic Road To Excellence program and his strategies will pay dividends. The COC screwed up in not offering him an upper-level position in 2000, but he's in the position he belongs in now. However, he's been in the role only a year and a half, so it's too early to judge him. But he's a guy who's going to dispassionately review results and make harsh changes to those programs that underperform.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

In China, a girl that shows gymnastic promise at 7 or 8 will be placed in a special school where they get 30 to 40 hours of practice per week. The child gets free schooling, room, and board.

In Canada, a co-worker has as 9 year old that is doing extremely well at provincial meets. He is paying $12,000 a year so that his daughter can get 20 hours of practice per week. Mostly, that is for facilities and a shared trainer. My co-worker would love to have a private trainer, but that would just be crazy money. He was saying that if you make Team Canada at 14 or 15, then you MIGHT get funding, but before then it is all on the parents. So it is extremely unlikely to see someone from a poor family winning a gold medal in gymnastics for Canada.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

As for whether it is worth it for the Canadian government to put more money into the Olympics - Alex Bauman I think put it best. In a country where there is an epidemic in obesity, where youth obesity is a huge problem, where kids are spending more and more time watching TV and playing video games - there needs to be some kind of celebration of athletic excellence.

Bauman was asking for $1/year/Canadian. That would seem like a small price to pay for the national pride that we get when a Donovan Baily wins a gold medal, or when Silken Laumann wins a silver medal....

Of course the money could be spent elsewhere. Teachers, doctors, etc. But Bauman's argument that there is almost no other way to spend so little money for the benefits of making Canada a leading athletic country...

Isn't there something like 350 Canadians in this thing? We gotta right up there, per-capita, for athletes representing. Quite frankly, thats a better indication of athletic participation then fewer participants and more medals.

The China girl you mentioned probably is locked in to be a gynmist for life and will have to stay in China and serve in some capacity for the amount of commitment to her training. In China, they are serious about the training and treat the 9 y/o like its a job and will boot camp her to be the best. The Canadian girl can choose any career she wants, participate in other sports if she wants, and any funding thrown her way is in good will and she can choose a different career if she wants. Which do you think is better for Canadian children?

Quite frankly, I don't think another ball throwing or stick throwing facility in Wetaskawin is going to get new-gen Jonny Canuck off his fat fata ass to throw sticks and balls 40 hrs a week instead of playing Halo 4.

[Circa89]

Originally Posted by troutman

athletesmain.html

Medal Hopes:

http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/countdown...wn-medals.html

Athens medal standings:

http://olympic-museum.de/m-stand/mirror2004.htm

Australia won 49 medals in Athens (with a population of 20 M people).

I found this interesting so I did some very quick calculations. Canada is primarily a Nordic nation (australia the opposite) so we should not do as well as them in the summer Olympics but we should be better in Winter etc.
Using 2 random European Nations where they have both summer and winter sports played on a par with Canada I did these calculations based on place finish for both the summer and winter games.

Canada - 33 million pop.
1996 22 medals - 11th place (based on total medal count)
1998 15 medals - 5th place
2000 14 medals - 17th place
2002 17 medals - 4th place
2004 12 medals - 18th Place
2006- 24 medals - 3rd place
average finish 9.6th Place

Austria - 9 million pop.
1996 - 3 medals 40th place
1998 - 17 medals 4th place
2000 - 3 medals - 48th place
2002- 17 medals - 4th place
2004 - 7 medals - 27th place
2006 - 23 medals - 4th place
Average finish 21st

France - 64 million pop.
1996 37 medals -6th place
1998 - 8 medals 11th place
2000 - 38 medals - 6th place
2002 - 11 medals - 8th place
2004 - 33 medals - 7th place
2006 - 9 medals - 12th place
Average finish 8.3 place

Australia with a predominate summer sport culture and 12 months a year to train and have people gain interest in the sport generally does better than us in the summer olympics but here is their medal count for the last few winter olympics
1998 - 1
2002- 2
2006 - 2 medals.

I guess what we have to compare is apples to apples. All in all based on our climate and population size we fair pretty well at the Games. Top 10 based on summer and winter added together and being only the 36th most populous nation.

I would like to see some more comparisons if somebody has more time than me.

[evman150]

First baseball game for Canada is today. They play on CBC at 9:30 PM MT if they are broadcasting it live, which I would expect. They should have a pretty easy time of it with China, but with baseball you never know.

Here's the full schedule for anybody interested.

http://66.241.210.162/files/Beijing%...%205-20-08.pdf

[Nehkara]

I believe that if we want to become a nation that competes consistently to be a top 5 country in the medals, then we have to make a serious contribution to our athletes. They need to be able to train all year without worrying about money. You make that a reality for them and we will win more medals.

I'm not sure you can put a price on national pride and inspiration. I believe we need to make a serious effort to put forth well-trained, well-funded, and well-prepared athletes.

David Ford from Kayaking is a good example. He finished 6th (including a penalty that no one could figure out) but said that he missed the final training camp before the Olympics because his funding was pulled. They said he was "too old".

If that penalty, which no one can figure out, was taken off he would have been 4th. Bet with that last training camp he would have been at least 3rd.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by octothorp

In other news, the Canadian women's football team has drawn #1 ranked US in the quarterfinals. Probably on paper the worst possible draw, but the US looked pretty average in losing to 5th ranked Norway and beating 10th ranked Japan 1-0, before whipping #23rd New Zealand 4-0. So it's a winnable game, but the girls will need to put in a better effort than any of their three round-robin games.

If they win, they'll have a great shot in the semis against China or Japan, while other powerhouses Germany, Sweden, Norway, and Brazil are all on the other side of the bracket.

Do we know yet whether this will be the early or late game on Friday?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Isn't there something like 350 Canadians in this thing? We gotta right up there, per-capita, for athletes representing. Quite frankly, thats a better indication of athletic participation then fewer participants and more medals.

Quite frankly, I don't think another ball throwing or stick throwing facility in Wetaskawin is going to get new-gen Jonny Canuck off his fat fata ass to throw sticks and balls 40 hrs a week instead of playing Halo 4.

#1 - 1 gold medal will get more media attention than 350 62nd place finishes. I like the plan to focus funding on those with medal chances rather than towards everyone who qualifies. There is no tracker on the front page of CBC.ca comparing participants that qualified.

#2 - I wasn't suggesting that Canada follow China's methods. My point was that we would have to do *SOMETHING* if we wanted to compete against China. Having girls that can't afford to practice for 20 hours per week are not going to compete against girls that practice for 40 hours per week.

#3 - re: Halo: Alex Bauman would disagree. But in any case, *IF* new-gen Jonny Canuck WANTED to get off his fat ass and throw sticks, then we should have stick throwing facilities at his disposal. It's not a matter of "if there is demand, then they will build it". Ottawa as a municipality is in a huge budget crunch and so they are closing rec facilities, after school programs, public pools, etc, etc.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by icarus

Do we know yet whether this will be the early or late game on Friday?

The Canadian women's team is a hell of a squad to watch; I'm surprised these gals don't get more appreciation at home than they do, they're right up there with the heavyweights.

[Devils'Advocate]

The game is at 6am eastern. I'll go to work late.... or if it is 3-0 5 minutes into the game, I'll go to work early.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

#1 - 1 gold medal will get more media attention than 350 62nd place finishes. I like the plan to focus funding on those with medal chances rather than towards everyone who qualifies. There is no tracker on the front page of CBC.ca comparing participants that qualified.

#2 - I wasn't suggesting that Canada follow China's methods. My point was that we would have to do *SOMETHING* if we wanted to compete against China. Having girls that can't afford to practice for 20 hours per week are not going to compete against girls that practice for 40 hours per week.

#3 - re: Halo: Alex Bauman would disagree. But in any case, *IF* new-gen Jonny Canuck WANTED to get off his fat ass and throw sticks, then we should have stick throwing facilities at his disposal. It's not a matter of "if there is demand, then they will build it". Ottawa as a municipality is in a huge budget crunch and so they are closing rec facilities, after school programs, public pools, etc, etc.

1. Outside of 2 weeks every 4 years, do you even care? 1444/1460 days we don't even care about most of these summer olympics. Do you watch the world championships for womens double ping-pong and high beam routines?

2. Fair enough... then what do you suggest? Some countries pump money in, and expect a long term commitment that diverges their attention from any other options at a young age. Some countries pump money in at the sacrifice of health care, education and so on. Some countries have incredibly high taxes. Some others put enough in to sponser amateur athletes, but don't blow the budget for for 14/1460 days a year and world championships.

3. He can go do that in his back yard. But in all seriousness, there are sufficient facilities here. Small towns have the YMCA, big cities have major complex's like UofA, UofC, UBC, COP.

Quite frankly, I think in 50 years, the olympics will go from a 24/7 CBC broadcast to an afternoon ESPN event. I honestly have no idea who Michael Phelps, that Ford kayak guy and half of these events until 2 days ago. I sure knew who Yao Ming and Kobe Brant were, though. If we want to make these track&field, kayakers, diving teams and ping pong players pro, then it'll need to have a fan base. Otherwise, keep it as amateurs who get sponsorship but not keep it as a career (thus amateur, and not pro's) and just feel glad that we have alot of guys there at the olympics right up there with the worlds best - and it doesn't necessarily have ot make us the best.

[HelloHockeyFans]

These Chinese divers are ridiculous...

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Quite frankly, I think in 50 years, the olympics will go from a 24/7 CBC broadcast to an afternoon ESPN event. I honestly have no idea who Michael Phelps, that Ford kayak guy and half of these events until 2 days ago. I sure knew who Yao Ming and Kobe Brant were, though. If we want to make these track&field, kayakers, diving teams and ping pong players pro, then it'll need to have a fan base.

Have you considered the possibility that this says more about your ignorance than the lack of mass appeal these athletes have? Seriously - if you hadn't heard of Michael Phelps until 2 days ago then you've been living under a rock, or watching nothing but the above-mentioned ESPN to the exclusion of all things not professional American.

Not trying to be rude, but it does bother me when people assume that because they're not familiar with someone or something, then it automatically follows that no-one else is either. There are lots of us who do know who Michael Phelps is and who do know who "that Ford kayak guy" is.

[Phanuthier]

Ok my apologies Ruttiger, I guess you follow freestyle swimming and white water rafting quite closely.

[CaptainCrunch]

This swimming pool is ridiculous, It seems to be way to easy for everyone to eclipse their former times.

[FurnaceFace]

The CBC commentators frankly piss me off. They consistently hype up the athlete only to have the athlete turn in a different performance. Just now the commentator says about Hayden "he shouldn't have a problem qualifying for the final" and he ends up in 11th.

WDF?

Perhaps Hayden screwed up the start however shouldn't the commentators NOT hype someone? It's expectation setting and they are setting it awfully high for me.

Best example was the men's gymnastics where they had me believing the team could get 7th or 8th to qualify but then tell me two of the team members are coming off major injury which affected their training and one of the guys screwed him ankle a few days before the competition. I hear that and think to myself "how can they possibly be favoured to get through? They'd have to have a monumental effort to make it."

Is it just me?

[icarus]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This swimming pool is ridiculous, It seems to be way to easy for everyone to eclipse their former times.

They have lubricated the water with KY Jelly, that's the word on the street.

[Antithesis]

Wow, the world champion doesn't even make the finals. This is getting beyond disappointing.

[moon]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

The CBC commentators frankly piss me off. They consistently hype up the athlete only to have the athlete turn in a different performance. Just now the commentator says about Hayden "he shouldn't have a problem qualifying for the final" and he ends up in 11th.

WDF?

Perhaps Hayden screwed up the start however shouldn't the commentators NOT hype someone? It's expectation setting and they are setting it awfully high for me.

He had finished first in the World Championships and swam under 48 seconds in the qualifier which was all he needed to do to qualify for the finals.

That had everything to do with Hayden screwing the pooch, not the commentator overhyping him.

CBC can be guilty of that but there was no reason, other than the fact he is a Canadian in the Olympics, to think that Hayden would not be able to make the final based on past performance.

[Antithesis]

Surprising - yet another Canadian disappoints. This is seriously getting ridiculous. I'm sure I'm sounding like a total cynical a-hole here, but they're blaming this one on the girl being anxious? What? She's supposed to be among the best in the world! I have yet to hear a single story about a Canadian performing better than expected during these Olympics, and I've been watching a lot of it - and getting more and more tired of these poor results.

[FurnaceFace]

Ron Maclean: "and for those American viewers..."

There are American viewers watching CBC?