Alright, this is a little too much from me... (Smoking ban with kids in car)

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Yeah, lets do a 900 dollar test for a 120 dollar ticket?

And then the person takes it to court to fight off. Can you imagine how much money it will cost to try to get that $120 ticket to go through? I would imagine a "smoking in the car" ticket to be a lot easier to fight off than a speeding ticket, just because collecting evidence fo the the smoking ticket will be so much harder to do.

Edit: Hmm, actually I thought of this after my post. But can't you just raise the fine? Why does it necessarily have to be $120? Just make it $5,000. That should cover the DNA test.

[badnarik]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

That's an evasion, Murder is culpable homicide (i.e. a moral judgment) by simply using the term murder you incorporate a moral basis.

The question of whether euthanasia is culpable or non-culpable homicide is a perfect example. If you call it murder you are making a moral statement. If you call it mercy killing, you are also making a moral statement.

It doesn't matter what you call it, it's a violation of property rights when one person kills another without the consent of the person being killed.

Smoking in a car violates the child's property rights by damaging the child's body. Smokers have the right to damage their own body, but not the property (bodies) of others unless the other person consents.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Yeah, lets do a 900 dollar test for a 120 dollar ticket?

Well, you guys are certaintantly blowing this out of porportion. It would be similar to a cop looking for someone not wearing a seatbelt, they are actually quite good at noticing these things because they're trained to look for it, just as they would be trained to look for parents smoking while driving, and then se if there is a kid in the car too. I admit, it wouldn't be the easiest ticket to give out, but hell, make it $500, and have the cop tell each parent that gets the ticket that they are a complete idiot and shouldn't be allowed to care for kids.

Also, in court it would be the cops word against the parent, and it's not as easy to get off on those as people think. Maybe the judge would reduce them sometimes, but you would still be missing a day of work and paying for the reduced ticket.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

And then the person takes it to court to fight off. Can you imagine how much money it will cost to try to get that $120 ticket to go through? I would imagine a "smoking in the car" ticket to be a lot easier to fight off than a speeding ticket, just because collecting evidence fo the the smoking ticket will be so much harder to do.

Edit: Hmm, actually I thought of this after my post. But can't you just raise the fine? Why does it necessarily have to be $120? Just make it $5,000. That should cover the DNA test.

huh??? Cops don't have to "collect evidence" to issue a traffic ticket. Do cops take a picture of you without a seatbelt on when they pull people over for that? No. There is actually a ticket for throwing your cig butt out the window, and cops don't have to go collect the butt as evidence to give someone a ticket for littering out their car window. They have the authority to just see it happen, and then give you a ticket based on what happened.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Well, you guys are certaintantly blowing this out of porportion. It would be similar to a cop looking for someone not wearing a seatbelt, they are actually quite good at noticing these things because they're trained to look for it, just as they would be trained to look for parents smoking while driving, and then se if there is a kid in the car too. I admit, it wouldn't be the easiest ticket to give out, but hell, make it $500, and have the cop tell each parent that gets the ticket that they are a complete idiot and shouldn't be allowed to care for kids.

Also, in court it would be the cops word against the parent, and it's not as easy to get off on those as people think. Maybe the judge would reduce them sometimes, but you would still be missing a day of work and paying for the reduced ticket.

Unless the car-seat is high enough or the kid tall enough, this would not be as easy to see as you think, despite training.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Unless the car-seat is high enough or the kid tall enough, this would not be as easy to see as you think, despite training.

And do you know how pissed someone would be if they got pulled over and their 17yr old passenger didn't have ID?

What would you do in this situation? What if it is the passenger that is smoking at age 14? Does it start at the Okotoks city limits?

Doesn't make sense to me, not on a township level.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Unless the car-seat is high enough or the kid tall enough, this would not be as easy to see as you think, despite training.

c'mon. Traffic cops drive around the city all day just looking for traffic violations. So let's say the goverment brings in this new law, and then tells the cops that this will be their main focus for the next month (kind of like when they pick certain months to focus on seatbelts, speeding in construction zones etc). So the cops drive around in traffic, they look at cars ahead of them, and they say "hmm there's someone smoking, I'll come a little closer, oh look at that a child in the backseat, *sirens go on*. Look around next time your driving, unless a van/car has smoked out back windows, then it's actuall pretty easy to notice a child/kid in a car/van while you are driving around. Now imagine you're a cop who's specifically looking for this all day as his job. I think it woulsd be easier then you think, so I guess we'll have to a agree to disagree.

[BuzzardsWife]

I think as tax paying citizens we should take this problem on ourselves and beat up people we see smoking around their kids.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

And do you know how pissed someone would be if they got pulled over and their 17yr old passenger didn't have ID?

What would you do in this situation? What if it is the passenger that is smoking at age 14? Does it start at the Okotoks city limits?

Doesn't make sense to me, not on a township level.

Again, I believe you guys are being really nitpicky in trying to make it seem as though this is a stupid law to pass. Did they say what age this will go up to? Will it actually be used for 17 year old young adults in the car, or will they be targeting young kids in the car? Do we know this yet?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

I think as tax paying citizens we should take this problem on ourselves and beat up people we see smoking around their kids.

Especially if they're fat!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

I think as tax paying citizens we should take this problem on ourselves and beat up people we see smoking around their kids.

I agree. I'll bring the sacs, but you have supply your own knobs.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

I think as tax paying citizens we should take this problem on ourselves and beat up people we see smoking around their kids.

I want to be the guy swinging the sack of door knobs! Heck, I'll even supply my own door knobs!

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Again, I believe you guys are being really nitpicky in trying to make it seem as though this is a stupid law to pass. Did they say what age this will go up to? Will it actually be used for 17 year old young adults in the car, or will they be targeting young kids in the car? Do we know this yet?

In my OP it said 16, and that is a huge part of my opposition to it.

Maybe try and crack down on people under 18 smoking as well. I started smoking at a crazy young age and it was soooo easy to get smokes and I could smoke in the mall.

I do not think this is something a township should try and spearhead tbqh. It is just too hard to do.

[Calgaryborn]

This law is too much. What's next? Will parents of fat kids get fined for serving too many desserts? How about parents who drink around their children? That dramatically increases the chances of them abusing alcohol.

Their is great benefits to being apart of the social structure we call a family. But with said benefits come some drawbacks as well. We get our parents warts and all. The state cannot accurately measure the effects of secondhand smoke in a car. Their are too many variables: How much is smoked? What brand? How often is the kid exposed? Is the window rolled down? How much is the window rolled down? Does the kid have a history of breathing problems?

Can you fine a single mother living on a waitress salary in downtown Calgary $120.00 without hurting her child? I don't think so. I think the government makes enough money off her addiction.

[Gozer]

How about jailing a dad because his 18 year old daughter failed high school?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bes...dad.jailed.cnn

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

This law is too much. What's next? Will parents of fat kids get fined for serving too many desserts? How about parents who drink around their children? That dramatically increases the chances of them abusing alcohol.

Their is great benefits to being apart of the social structure we call a family. But with said benefits come some drawbacks as well. We get our parents warts and all. The state cannot accurately measure the effects of secondhand smoke in a car. Their are too many variables: How much is smoked? What brand? How often is the kid exposed? Is the window rolled down? How much is the window rolled down? Does the kid have a history of breathing problems?

Can you fine a single mother living on a waitress salary in downtown Calgary $120.00 without hurting her child? I don't think so. I think the government makes enough money off her addiction.

Smoking in a car with your kid present is stupid. It's that simple. Personally, I think parents who do this should be happy to recieve a small ticket for this, if I were in charge, their kids would be in social services.

[CMPunk]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Smoking in a car with your kid present is stupid. It's that simple. Personally, I think parents who do this should be happy to recieve a small ticket for this, if I were in charge, their kids would be in social services.

Wow...

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

Wow...

Yep, that's actually the same thing I said when I realized that there were actually parents out there that smoke in their car, while their kids sit in the back.

[CMPunk]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yep, that's actually the same thing I said when I realized that there were actually parents out there that smoke in their car, while their kids sit in the back.

Meh, my mom did it to me and I survived.

It's people like you that make me not want to have kids. So what next, you're going to take away peoples kid who visit someone who's a smoker? Take away the kids if they don't have a meal that fits within Canada's food guide 6 times a week?

Do I agree with smoking in the car? No, but you're getting a bit extreme on taking away the child.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

Meh, my mom did it to me and I survived.

It's people like you that make me not want to have kids. So what next, you're going to take away peoples kid who visit someone who's a smoker? Take away the kids if they don't have a meal that fits within Canada's food guide 6 times a week?

Do I agree with smoking in the car? No, but you're getting a bit extreme on taking away the child.

Fair enough, for me, I just hate the fact that parents smoke in the car with their little kids present. If you knew me, we'd probably find that we agree on the fact that there is too much "think of the children" going on now a days, and that goverment is doing too much to interfere with the way kids are raised. I was raised in the late '80s/90's and I saw my parents and my freinds' parents doing things that would have most of the "i'm the perfect parent" parents heads' spinning these days, and we all turned out fine.

heck, I still remember my friends dad loading 10 of us in his old ford 150, with two or three kids per seat, no seatbelts, and he would slide down the entire road at a 90 degree angle on the icey street down to the 7-11 to get slurpees in the middle of winter with none of us dressed properly for the weather. Or giving us each our own beer on New years eve when we were all around 10 or 11. Actually looking back those were some of my favorite memories growing up, lol.

But yeah, for some reason this smoking thing has my panties in a bunch, lol. Actually, come to think of it, that same dad was a heavy smoker, and looking back, I'm sure he was probably smoking in the truck with us in there too.