Muslim employee at Canada airport fights dress code

[Kipper is King]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

pretty hard to go about my daily business as a normal Canadian when I can't even order a cup of fricken coffee because no one at Tim Hortons speaks any english.

Now that is just racist. And that is just wrong.

Often immigrants are trying to learn English. You go to a new country and try to get a job. You would have difficulties too! If you can't have patience for someone in that situation that is a real shame. Just wait a few seconds longer for your coffee won't do any harm.

And you are a "normal Canadian"? Implying immigrants are "abnormal"? Are you native? Then you might be able to claim that, seeing as your ancestors have been in Canada for so many generations.

For most of us, we only have a couple hundred years of history here. Our ancestors were immigrants.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

How do you know she is an immigrant?

Good point. I am only assuming.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

I agree they both could have handled the situation better, but I tend to sympathise more with the woman, since she's the one who had to pay the price (in the form of her job).

And I don't see the harm here in allowing the rest of the women to wear longer skirts, if they want to. Remember though the woman in the story went through the trouble of making the skirt herself and making it look identical to the provided one, just longer. I would bet most women would rather just wear the shorter skirt rather than going through the same hassle.

How do you figure it was trouble? Maybe she enjoys stuff like that...it sounds to me that there has been compromise on both sides..not sure why this is a human rights issue...cause she is an immigrant? Do human rights only apply to them? to the minority....only..

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Barring that, do you see a custom that you like to practice being threatened or taken away from you?

Playing devils advocate...

How about Christmas and the whole erosion of it into the non-ideological generic "Holidays." Can't say Merry Christmas anymore for fear of offending certain groups. Can't put up light on trees without running the risk of being accused that you're ignoring other cultures beliefs. It's a starting point for further attacks on Western traditions in the name of equality of religious beliefs.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a ridiculous thing to make such a huge deal about 2" of length on a skirt that otherwise confirms in every other aspect with the rest of the companies dress code.

However, I'd say this is very much akin to the exemptions made for sikh members of the RCMP to forego the traditional Mounties hat so they can wear their turbans. An iconic part of the uniform that is a representation of something that is solely Canadian. What happens if a Muslim woman wants to join the RCMP? Should we alter the dress code so they can wear skirts and hijabs?

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

I agree they both could have handled the situation better, but I tend to sympathise more with the woman, since she's the one who had to pay the price (in the form of her job).

And I don't see the harm here in allowing the rest of the women to wear longer skirts, if they want to. Remember though the woman in the story went through the trouble of making the skirt herself and making it look identical to the provided one, just longer. I would bet most women would rather just wear the shorter skirt rather than going through the same hassle.

She choose to pay the price in the form of her job. As the article states, she can go back to her job at any time, provided she wears the proper uniform.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Who said it is and more importantly, what difference does it make if he is all these things?

The quote you originally responded to was a retort to the insinuation that HIS white christian conservative values are not "canadian values". They're his. Not the woman in question and not mine either.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by llama64

No one stops my parents church from holding a traditional Christmas pagent. Or do you mean at a public school? Surely you can see the conflict there...

Last I checked, Catholic schools still hold religious ceremonies and events. Oh the oppression.

And CATSA is a government run agency....surely you can see the parallels.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Good point. I am only assuming.

You're assuming correctly. She is from Somalia.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Affirmative Action??????

So how come children are no longer allowed to have a traditional Christmas pagent anymore? They can't practice that because.....oh.....it might offend some people".

Where is this happening besides PUBLIC school?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

Now that is just racist. And that is just wrong.

Often immigrants are trying to learn English. You go to a new country and try to get a job. You would have difficulties too! If you can't have patience for someone in that situation that is a real shame. Just wait a few seconds longer for your coffee won't do any harm.

And you are a "normal Canadian"? Implying immigrants are "abnormal"? Are you native? Then you might be able to claim that, seeing as your ancestors have been in Canada for so many generations.

For most of us, we only have a couple hundred years of history here. Our ancestors were immigrants.

Oh....yup...here we go.....I am racist because I expect people who work in Canada and deal with the general public to speak one of the two official languages. I am such a bad person and clearly a racist.

[Kipper is King]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Oh....yup...here we go.....I am racist because I expect people who work in Canada and deal with the general public to speak one of the two official languages. I am such a bad person and clearly a racist.

My main point is that they are trying to learn the language and that you should have more patience.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Where is this happening besides PUBLIC school?

It goes far beyond the public school system. Although my point was that the school system is a government run institution where religion should not play a role yet its ok for this lady to pull the religon card.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

My main point is that they are trying to learn the language and that you should have more patience.

Who said I wasn't patient with them?????

[Pagal4321]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Oh....yup...here we go.....I am racist because I expect people who work in Canada and deal with the general public to speak one of the two official languages. I am such a bad person and clearly a racist.

Well if that's the case we should make people take English tests as part of job interviews....I'd LOVE to see how many Tim Hortons close down due to staffing issues then.
Unless of course you would like to quit your job to pour coffee.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by 4X4

The quote you originally responded to was a retort to the insinuation that HIS white christian conservative values are not "canadian values". They're his. Not the woman in question and not mine either.

I didn't say you had to be white, conservative or Christian to have Canadian values....someone else did. There are MANY who do not fall in this catergory especially new immigrants that want to adapt to Canadian culture and become Canadian.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Playing devils advocate...

How about Christmas and the whole erosion of it into the non-ideological generic "Holidays." Can't say Merry Christmas anymore for fear of offending certain groups. Can't put up light on trees without running the risk of being accused that you're ignoring other cultures beliefs. It's a starting point for further attacks on Western traditions in the name of equality of religious beliefs.

False. No one is forcing you from doing any of that. Any restrictions of lights on trees or whatever have been in public and government facilities. That is separation of church and state only. And before anyone tries to make a poor argument about how this should be separation of church and state don't. Because this is an issue of personal religious freedom. Her wearing a longer skirt does not impact the separation of church and state.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

Well if that's the case we should make people take English tests as part of job interviews....I'd LOVE to see how many Tim Hortons close down due to staffing issues then.

Wouldn't be so bad of an idea. If an employer wants to hire a foriegn worker and that worker is working in the general public, like Tims, then that worker MUST meet a minimum english requirement. But if you are a Canadian or Permanent Resident....no such requirement. Strange.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

How do you figure it was trouble? Maybe she enjoys stuff like that...it sounds to me that there has been compromise on both sides..not sure why this is a human rights issue...cause she is an immigrant? Do human rights only apply to them? to the minority....only..

Okay, maybe she does enjoy it, but what difference does it make? The point was she still used her own time and money to do it because she wanted to comply with her religious beliefs. I don't think many women at her workplace would do the same just for the sake of having a longer skirt.

The issue is she made the skirt because she felt the provided one was not appropriate in the eyes of her religion. Of couse human rights apply to everyone. This would be no different if she was a white Canadian-born Muslim.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Burninator

False. No one is forcing you from doing any of that. Any restrictions of lights on trees or whatever have been in public and government facilities. That is separation of church and state only. And before anyone tries to make a poor argument about how this should be separation of church and state don't. Because this is an issue of personal religious freedom. Her wearing a longer skirt does not impact the separation of church and state.

Ok, so teachers can bring all the religous items they want to the school and display it on there own desk. Hell they should be allowed to set up a Christmas tree in there class room of they so desire.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

It goes far beyond the public school system. Although my point was that the school system is a government run institution where religion should not play a role yet its ok for this lady to pull the religon card.

How are you even comparing those two? It's not part of a Christians belief to participant in a Christmas pageant at school. It IS part of her religious belief to cover her legs. Nice try.