Atheists, a few questions to you...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Positives? I would think that most atheists would like to see religion go the way of the dodo bird.
I would think that question would be better answered by theists...what positives can you see for religion as an insider? Outside of the USA, and mostly the southern USA, the western world is turning their back on organized religion in huge waves...do you think that the tide can be turned? How and Why?
With the average person getting advanced education how can the church forcefeed fantasy as opposed to reality?

I agree.

God save us all from religion.

Nice to see you again Cheese...I figured this thread would bring you out of the closet.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think our world view may be slightly different. I don't see the average person in the world getting advanced education. I see mostly poor uneducated masses that need religion to make their life meaningful, and to make society a little more stable.

I feel atheists tend to justify their stand by focusing on the negatives and ignoring any good that religion has to offer.

Sure it's got some good to offer. So did Alexandre Daigle.

The problem is that a lot of religious people in these parts don't, you know, actually follow the religion. My take on Christianity is (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the followers should try to follow the namesake's lead and be pious, non-judgemental, happy(?), helpful people. That doesn't seem to be the case though. And considering what a bunch of crooks, creeps, liars, loons and scumbags the noisiest members of the faith are, my opinion likely won't change anytime soon.

As for the poor uneducated masses and the need for religion to make their lives meaningful, let's put that sentiment another way:

"They have miserable lives, but if we can convince them that believing this really wild story and kicking in a few shekels for the cause will get them into The Magic Place, their lives will be better".

No thanks.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by PYroMaNiaC

I found this statement interesting. What do you make of people that believe that the nature of God is infinitesimally logical?

Illogical?

[PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Illogical?

Why?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by PYroMaNiaC

Why?

Thats simple...Im an atheist. I dont believe in Gods of any type nor do I believe that the belief in Gods is logical . I came to this belief by actually reading and studying all of the information I could find on religion...all religions. A great place to start is here... http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php ... experts from both sides and a library of unmatched expanse. The real question once again should be...why do you believe that God<of any type> is logical...that is if you do? In other words, by what pretense do you base the fact that belief in God is logical?

[Dr. Evil]

Every religion is wrong.

[PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Thats simple...Im an atheist. I dont believe in Gods of any type nor do I believe that the belief in Gods is logical . I came to this belief by actually reading and studying all of the information I could find on religion...all religions.

Oh, I agree that religion is BS. I just haven't decided which came first - God or religion.
I'll admit that I have a penchant for spirituality, but I don't believe that it comes from a need for "God", but more in the need for peace and understanding.

Originally Posted by Cheese

A great place to start is here... http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php ... experts from both sides and a library of unmatched expanse.

It will take me weeks and months to digest everything on this site, but it does look rather interesting.

Originally Posted by Cheese

The real question once again should be...why do you believe that God<of any type> is logical...that is if you do? In other words, by what pretense do you base the fact that belief in God is logical?

The only God that makes sense is one that is logical. The universe is amazingly intricate and unbelievably balanced. IF there is a God and he/she/it created it, then his mind is extrodinary - and infinitesimally logical. If it was random and choatic acts of creation, then the world and universe would never work for as long as it has.

That's a big IF, though.

[Cheese]

heres a fun link to Fight the Goodfight Ministries

scroll down and check out the U2 blurb LOL

[Thor]

Originally Posted by PYroMaNiaC

Oh, I agree that religion is BS. I just haven't decided which came first - God or religion.
I'll admit that I have a penchant for spirituality, but I don't believe that it comes from a need for "God", but more in the need for peace and understanding.

Hey Pyro, good posts.

In my own view I'll answer my perspective on these comments. I find a study of human nature and the human need for learning/curiosity is a great way to find answers. I find that mythical belief takes from these pursuits, in fact one of my favorite books is a atheistic look at Buddhism which explores its inner peace values without a worship to a god. Religion is a great source of division and turmoil for a majority of human history and therefore I think peace and understanding come from anti-theism and logic.

Atheism is inclusive, its about rational and open debate about anything and everything. Religion goes the other way, so for me Atheism is ultimately leading towards more tolerance, understanding and unity amongst human beings.

The only God that makes sense is one that is logical. The universe is amazingly intricate and unbelievably balanced. IF there is a God and he/she/it created it, then his mind is extrodinary - and infinitesimally logical. If it was random and choatic acts of creation, then the world and universe would never work for as long as it has.

That's a big IF, though.

If god was logical, why does God fail every logical philosophical question? I mean if god is real, who created god, who created that who created the creator? If god is indeed real and does not intervene then is god insensitive. If he selectively intervenes and ignores many others than is he vindictive or flawed? If god is not intervening then why is he called god?

To excuse the immensity and wonder of the universe and existence to it only being possibly by godly means, takes away from the true wonder of it all. It is commonly said by faithful how incredible our eyes are and how only a divine creator could divine such a miracalous thing.

Why then poor eyesight, blindness? Again god intervenes when he feels a need, or he cannot intervene? Both questions lead to failure of a god. How about that other 'so called' inferior creatures have superior eyesight to humans. If we are created in his image, why then does he have animals with better hearing, eyesight, strength, lifespan, speed, etc..

Again the wonder of logic. The universe is chaotic and it has worked for as long as it has because we have at this point a pretty solid base understanding for how it formed and how it behaves. We have a lot to learn, but to put that off to a creator because its immensity of complexity is excusing reason and logic.

The truth is science as it gathers more evidence continually shows more evidence of why things behave the way they do, why we have black holes, why we have a diversity of species on earth, and such immensities that only 100 years ago would baffle and hamstring the most brilliant minds.

I can imagine 100 years from now when we understand more of our origins on earth, the complexity of space, time, and our new frontier the tiny universe of our molecules!

To say this is all divine, would then promptly fill thousands of pages of examples where humans have great flaws, the animal and plant kingdoms have great flaws. If these flaws are part of the divine plan, is your god flawed?

Ultimately these are questions the religious have to debate for themselves. The Atheistic are not dealing with these questions (thank god, they hurt the brain) but allow us to focus on science and logic.

It is often said that great astronomers have said its a shame religion takes credit for the wonder of the universe and our world; when its that same religion that seeks to reduce its importance and explain it with simple strokes and then ask its followers to not question it.

It is some odd god being that gives us this logical and curious mind; only to ask us to ignore these traits which make us so curious

[Neeper]

1. Are you vocal about your atheism or do you shy away when religious discussion occur?

I don't walk around telling everyone I don't believe in god. However, when religion gets pushed in my face, I get pretty vocal about it. My mother in law is a borderline fanatic. She says dinosaurs don't never existed.

2. Do you politely agree to baptisms, circumcisions, weddings in churches, etc.. In order to appease religious family or societal pressures?

Yes, of course. I am respectful to others beliefs.


3. Considering the state of the world today with radicalism in religion from the USA to Iran at a noticeably growing rate, do you feel more responsibility to speak your beliefs and fight to spread atheism to friends/family?

I don't try and spread anything. People can believe whatever they want to believe in. I can respect that. Just respect me.

4. Are you as an Atheist looking for a more focused plan and leadership online or locally to focus your efforts? Or would you prefer to not be involved in any Atheistic movements?

Not really. That would make me the opposite of my mother in law. An atheist fanatic. Again, people can believe in whatever they want.

5. Finally, are you optimistic that hundred's of years from now religion will be much less of an influence on this world or are you of the belief that we are going to be under religious influence for a long long time to come?

I think in 100 years no one will believe in religion. An intelligent extra terrestrial will finally come visit us and tell us we're their experiment.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think our world view may be slightly different. I don't see the average person in the world getting advanced education. I see mostly poor uneducated masses that need religion to make their life meaningful, and to make society a little more stable.

I feel atheists tend to justify their stand by focusing on the negatives and ignoring any good that religion has to offer.

I think that you misunderstand the benefit of religion to the uneducated masses.

When you find an uneducated group of people, throw in theism; you'll often find zealotry and radicalism.

The find meaning in divisive belief, they find meaning in hating those not in their theistic belief.

Society is much more unstable because of the lack of quality non-theistic education in the 2nd/3rd world. Do you think Palestine would be such a source of radicals IF they had a life to look forward to full of employment, education and freedoms to live a better life?

Its true Atheists are often the party poopers of religion. But its our duty to offer that side which pulls people away from a belief system which we deem to be counter productive to humanity's progress.

Its not like I like to tell people their beliefs are harmful and that they should consider other views; but I am compelled since after decades of anti-theistic progress we have a resurgence of theistic radicalism in one of the beacon's of freedom in the USA.

If religion was without harm, I can safely say most Atheists would quietly exist in our society living side by side with theists like we've done for thousands of years. But most of us are compelled in a world of free religion and such a huge pace of learning (computer age) of the last 50 years to speak out when people start resorting to old outdated ideology and dogma when we have much better alternatives.

Religion wants to tell me what books to read, what movies I can see, what words I cannot see, what nudity/art is acceptable...

Anything that discourages free thinking scares me, and thats why I am so concerned with religion and its followers; even if most of them are good people who do not know any better

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Neeper

I think in 100 years no one will believe in religion. An intelligent extra terrestrial will finally come visit us and tell us we're their experiment.

lol, thats quality. Come save us ET!!

One question to you though neeper, and to those who have mentioned the same belief.

If the world around you is pushing for a theocracy, if the laws are being changed to fit a religious agenda, if the world is in many conflicts based on theism... do you still feel happy to sit idly by while the theists decide what laws you will live by, what rules to abide by, what science your children will be tought?

For me I've always up until the last few years been like most Atheists, I hate preaching and if someone asks me about my beliefs I'm glad to share my thoughts.

But the way the world is going, the fact intelligent design museums are popping up and in the USA being tough in science classes. I am very concerned.

Not to mention the evangelical schools in the US/Canada looking to flood Christian law students into society in order to eventually overturn Abortion laws.

These religions like Christians, Muslims, want us to live under their laws and rules. This isn't concerning to you?