Mayor Dave steals our money so he can harrass bums, hobos, and other transients!

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

As for some personal jabs here and there ya I admit it, but I am by far one of the least offenders of such writing so throw me a bone would ya.

Fair enough. Bone thrown. I've done my share of "jabbing" myself.

I guess, since neither of us is willing to do any real research, we'll have to agree to disagree, to a certain extent. I do have personal experience with a person suffering from serious mental illness--I'm not going to get detailed on a message board, but a person very close to me. This is a person who has never abused substances, other than slight recreational alcohol use, the type of which we were all guilty as undergrads in all probability. So I hope I can be forgiven for objecting strenuously to any line of argument that claims that being mentally ill is somehow a person's own fault. I have firsthand knowledge of how mental illness could very well lead to someone becoming homeless. For my money, a better reaction to the homeless than judgement would be something along the lines of "there but for the grace of God go I."

But my other point--that mental illness leads to substance abuse--is a well documented fact. If you don't believe me, google "mental illness and substance abuse."

One thing we may well be losing sight of is that most psychiatrists consider substance abuse to BE a mental illness. It's often treated with medication, in addtion to behavioral interventions.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

If you deal with mental illness on almost a daily basis I find it hard to believe that it would take you hours to find this information to back you up.

I deal with them. If you read my post I said I do not deal with them in any kind of clinical way. As part of my job I see a lot of these people. Therefor I am not privliaged to any scientific data.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Fair enough. Bone thrown. I've done my share of "jabbing" myself.

I guess, since neither of us is willing to do any real research, we'll have to agree to disagree, to a certain extent. I do have personal experience with a person suffering from serious mental illness--I'm not going to get detailed on a message board, but a person very close to me. This is a person who has never abused substances, other than slight recreational alcohol use, the type of which we were all guilty as undergrads in all probability. So I hope I can be forgiven for objecting strenuously to any line of argument that claims that being mentally ill is somehow a person's own fault. I have firsthand knowledge of how mental illness could very well lead to someone becoming homeless. For my money, a better reaction to the homeless than judgement would be something along the lines of "there but for the grace of God go I."

But my other point--that mental illness leads to substance abuse--is a well documented fact. If you don't believe me, google "mental illness and substance abuse."

One thing we may well be losing sight of is that most psychiatrists consider substance abuse to BE a mental illness. It's often treated with medication, in addtion to behavioral interventions.

I would most certainly agree with you that mental illness leads to substance abuse. But I am sure it works the other way aswell.

Also, I dont think you will find anywhere in this thread where I blaimed people for being mentally ill. I can definately empathize with their situation just having to deal with them every day. The point I have been trying to make throughout this thread is that unless they make a willing choice to help themselves they will not be helped short of locking these people up and force medicating them. Now this thread was started as bashing people who panhandled. Not directly the homeless people. As you have read my previous posts those are the people that I have most of my problems with, they can find more meaningful use of their time.