The Juno's...what the hell?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I don't really get your point anyways. I suppose they have influence then. That's really nice of you to point that out. And because they've been around for a lot longer, it's also really nice that they've influenced other artists, they've had more time to do it. So because an artist isn't influential, they suck? Is that what you're saying? Or are you saying that those they've influenced are now not original as they're jsut using the work of others to make their own?

I enjoy Bach but he doesn't influnce my writing... does he suck? I enjoy Eminem but can't rap so he hasn't really influenced what I sing, does he suck? What constitutes an influence?

Basically what you're trying to say is because other bands don't want to be like Nickelback, they suck. Well do other bands want to be like Alexisonfire? Does that mean they suck? Does the talent a band have necessarily reflected in others being influenced by them?

WTF are you talking about??
It's really quite simple. Try to read it slowly.
1- I said Radiohead is an influencial band and will be in the future.
2- You said you disagree
3- I gave evidence to back up my claim

That is my point. THAT RADIOHEAD IS AN INFLUENCIAL BAND AND THEREFORE WILL HAVE A LASTING LEGACY.

This is actually quite a common form of debate. Make a statement, and back it up with evidence. You should try it, instead of talking about something completely irrelevent to my post.

Where did I say bands that aren't influential suck?
I didn't even mention Nickelback in that post, so I have no clue where you're coming from. Your defensiveness of Nickelback has clearly clouded your ability to read.
Even when someone is not talking about Nickelback, your response is "how does that make Nickelback suck".

If you aren't gonna respond to what I actually write, please don't quote me at all. I'd rather debate with drywall.


And FlamesAddiction, thanks for the link. Let down is one of my all time favorite songs too, so glad to cast a vote.

[FireFly]

Pardon me, I didn't realize I needed to quote your exact thought to be able to comment on it. I'll remember in the future not to discuss what you've previously said without quoting it.

You originally said that a good/great band must be an influential one. I disagreed with who you thought were influential, but I suppose that since I don't really listen to bands Radiohead influenced, I wouldn't have known that. Either way, who has influence doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand. You've proven RadioHead has had influence. Lovely. When's the last time you heard their song on a radio?

"If Nickelback becomes and oldies band that is only listened to by old people who no longer have any influence on the music industry and hold on to Nickelback like mullets, because they havn't progressed beyond them...so be it. I'm not saying they won't accomplish that, but that hardly makes them a good/great band."

"You have commented on which bands will be remembered. With any artist/entertainer there influence is one the most crucial aspect of their legacy. The 2 can't be seperated."

"To have a prolonged artistic influence over a wide audience, a band must have precisely those 2 things. Artistic influence and a wide audience.
Nickelback clearly lacks the first, and the "cafe bands" as you call them clearly lack the second. The next generation of Zepplins are the bands that do both."


So, an artist must have artistic influence and wide influence to have a prolonged career. That's lovely, but it still doesn't make them a good/great band. Groundbreaking perhaps, but not necessarily good.

What do you mean by the 'next generation of Zepplin bands' precisely?

[FireFly]

And as stated previously, I don't really like Nickelback either. I'm defending their artistic ability to create what people will enjoy instead of being forced to put out something 'new and innovative' that will never hit the radiowaves just to be considered an artist.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by FireFly

You've proven RadioHead has had influence. Lovely. When's the last time you heard their song on a radio?

Well yeah that might be what some people are complaining about. They've probably sold more records than Nickelback. They aren't exactly coffee house superstars.

Maybe we are just hicks.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by FireFly

And as stated previously, I don't really like Nickelback either. I'm defending their artistic ability to create what people will enjoy instead of being forced to put out something 'new and innovative' that will never hit the radiowaves just to be considered an artist.

The entire point of art is to be new and innovative.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by peter12

The entire point of art is to be new and innovative.

There would be a debate about that too . . . .

Widely divergent views as to the purpose of art . . .

http://www.painterskeys.com/getquote...name=ps&ID=247

A debate:

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/dorian...s/theme_1.html

Or this thought:

http://www.oldandsold.com/articles11...heart-30.shtml

Or this discussion:

http://www.saint-andre.com/thoughts/hugo-rand.html

Also,

"The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls." - Pablo Picasso.

"The final purpse of art is to intensify, even, if necessary, to exacerbate, the moral consciousness of people." - Norman Mailer.

So, we might conclude that Pablo Picasso might have been a Nickelback fan but Norman Mailer probably wouldn't have been.

Cowperson

[icarus]

Originally Posted by fotze

Of all these weird creatures
Who lock up their spirits
Drill holes in themselves
And live for their secrets

That is some cool ****. Is he saying that if Aliens watched humans they would think it is insane how we lose our spirit and do heroine. WHo the hell knows.

I interpreted it to mean we keep liquor cabinets and get piercings. Who the hell knows, you're right. Long live postmodernism!

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Did you even read what I said? I'm not comparing albums, I'm comparing musical styles. Tracks off of American Idiot sound to me like the boring, "make some **** up" songs that Good Charlotte spit out.

I'm not using Ed The Sock to prove a point, I'm re-stating his comments on the "dye your hair black, put on mascara and have an attitude" style that Green Day and Good Charlotte now seem to share.

Believe everything that the critics tell you and don't form you're own opinions. Got the message!

I'm not saying that bands can't change, but that Green Day has tried to become something that is shallow and boring compared to what they once were, when they were popular the first time. I haven't listened to Green Day since Dookie, but someone told me that American Idiot was amazing. Frankly, I thought it was boring and trite.

As for the change in style from tried and true three chord punk... consider the songs of American Idiot and compare that to Dookie. I'll venture that the complexity is greater in Dookie, lord knows it's at least played faster.

Who cares if someone knows that Green Day had albums before Dookie, or that Welcome To Paradise is on two of them in succession? If you've listened to Green Day what the hell is wrong?

I'm not saying that Green Day is ****. I'm saying that the accolades that Green Day gets for producing something "different" are unfounded. You want to see something different, look at something like Coheed and Cambria. Forget the concept album (I mean, Green Day are the only ones who ever thought that up) CAC are a bloody concept band. They're not everyone's cup of tea, but that's more original than American Idiot.

But as far as I'm concerned, the most original thing I've heard recently is Ben Folds covering Snoop Dog's song Bitches Aint ****.

I never said I believe everything the critics tell me.......hell Warning is probably my second favorite GD album and it wasn't recieved very well by fans or critics. I'm just letting you know that comparing GC to GD is well.........a slap in the face to GD.

Many bands share the same musical styles but are nowhere near each other in musical ability. So it sounds like your saying you hate all music that sounds like GC, even GD just becuase to the casual listener see's some similarities in the musical style.

OMG lol...........Dookie was not really complicated in any way, no matter how you look at it. Solid songwriting and catchy hooks in a nutshell.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

I never said I believe everything the critics tell me.......hell Warning is probably my second favorite GD album and it wasn't recieved very well by fans or critics. I'm just letting you know that comparing GC to GD is well.........a slap in the face to GD.

Many bands share the same musical styles but are nowhere near each other in musical ability. So it sounds like your saying you hate all music that sounds like GC, even GD just becuase to the casual listener see's some similarities in the musical style.

OMG lol...........Dookie was not really complicated in any way, no matter how you look at it. Solid songwriting and catchy hooks in a nutshell.

To me...American Idiot sounds like the boring un-inspired music that bands like Good Charlotte put out. If that's a slap in the face to Green Day, then so be it.

I don't hate music like the type that Good Charlotte or Green Day put out. I find it boring.

Dookie may not be complicated, but NEITHER is American Idiot.

[Eddie Bronze]

I find it kind of funny how people take music so personally. They can sit and argue and bitch over musicians all day long but when it comes right down to it, it's a form of entertainment. Just like movies. But for some reason, movies don't seem to provoke the same emotion when it comes to debating them.

I've listened to a lot of different genres of music since I was a kid when the only music in the house was country. I guess for anyone who hasn't, they don't seem to be able to see that it's simply a form of entertainment and enjoyment and no two people are going to feel the same about it. To suggest you know more about something because you like it and they don't is basically like saying my opinon matters and yours doesn't.