This is MIkael Backlund's 18th season with the Flames (well, 17, but he made a 1 game appearance as a rookie).
He has earned the right to choose to either finish off his career in Calgary, or go cup hunting. He isn't an impediment to the rebuild. In fact, he has a very long history of helping break-in players into the league, and is helping to do so right now with Honzek.
As for the rebuild - if Conroy announces that the Flames are rebuilding, but doesn't make any corresponding moves for the next month, will people actually believe him? Or do you literally have to see every single vet being traded-out for futures? No team really does that. Nobody. San Jose didn't, Chicago didn't...
I expect Andersson + Kadri (probable) traded at some point before the deadline. Coleman is a maybe, but doubtful until next season (at some point either in the off-season or up until the deadline). Whom else needs to be moved before this is a 'rebuild' for some of you?
As for Edwards "loving the core" - I take it either as media speak, or perhaps he does actually really like the players on a personal level, and will be sad to see them go. If he loved this core, Andersson would have been re-signed already. Plus, Kadri has been in the rumour mill for a while now, and neither Kadri nor Conroy have stated anything one way or another.
This is already a very substantial rebuild, and we are witnessing the Flames bottoming-out because of it. A good portion of people predicted this outcome LAST season, but it didn't happen as they were running on fumes. Now we have arrived, and through all of the evidence, people are still not accepting that this is a rebuild? I honestly don't get it.
As for being competitive when the building opens - I don't that's actually a 'plan'. I think the plan was to bottom-out last season, but it didn't happen. Now they will bottom-out this season, and likely next season, and then open up the new building with a young and fresh team with Backlund, Huberdeau and Weegar (probably) as the only carry-over vets, and with two high-end picks plus a very young but talented supporting cast. That's not success, but I argue it is enough to sell hope and provide a foundation for future success, and that's good with me.
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Huska has a bunch of forwards that aren't really good at being net front or rebound type guys, and telling them to just get pucks to the net and play for tips or rebounds.
Not that they have enough talent either way, but the team is not playing a system that best utilizes the roster.
It's playing a system that keeps games close enough, with the Hope maybe you are fortunate enough to come out on top of a 1 goal game.
Last year it worked - this year it has not.
With any coach, this is a problem that is i have. I understand making a young players learn the defensive side of the game, and that's important. There was a coach that forced OV to learn defense, 5 years into his career, and he benefited greatly from the instruction.
What is don't get, is making a player fit a role to which they are not physically suited. Or forcing a system that guts your best players.
A example of the first situation, is that in Philly tocchet is forcing Michkov to play a more consistent and intense role on the 3rd line. That's fine, and will pay long term dividends.
What he is not doing is forcing Michkov to rush the net and take crosschecks, blinding the goalie.
I'm not sure if Klapka, zary, Sharangovich or farabee are being used effectively. Or if they are learning anything. Fababee should be playing down and the others up, but that may be sorted out through trades at some point.
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This narrative keeps getting pushed. Conroy in his interview after the Lindholm trade said he knew after initial contract talks in September/October that he was going to trade him.
From his own mouth around the 1:15 mark
All the media reports that they were still negotiating throughout the season, especially that report around Christmas where the were said to offer 9M, was just media speak so it didn't sewer the trade talks.
I’m not sure what narrative you’re talking about. They had initial negotiations and lindholm was not happy with the offer but doesn’t mean that it wasn’t competitive. The team was pretty toxic at this point, his linemates left and he could have demanded more to stay on a sinking ship or he could have felt disrespected that he wasn’t receiving as much priority as the new guy who signed for 10.5 or the guys that left. Who knows.
My reply was to the original comment that the flames are somehow strategically low balling offers to avoid scrutiny by outsiders for trading away vets and rebuilding.
I’m not sure what narrative you’re talking about. They had initial negotiations and lindholm was not happy with the offer but doesn’t mean that it wasn’t competitive. The team was pretty toxic at this point, his linemates left and he could have demanded more to stay on a sinking ship or he could have felt disrespected that he wasn’t receiving as much priority as the new guy who signed for 10.5 or the guys that left. Who knows.
My reply was to the original comment that the flames are somehow strategically low balling offers to avoid scrutiny by outsiders for trading away vets and rebuilding.
The narrative that the Flames tired to sign Lindholm and he "saved" the Flames by not signing.
I guess my point is that just because you reach out to a veteran to talk about contracts, doesn't mean they are trying to sign them. It is the GMs responsibility to to at the very least see where the player stands. Obviously in this case the Flames knew very early on he was going to be traded, yet they are being raked over the coals for a report in December where they were said to be offering 9M.
I think a lot of the media stuff is just noise that you have to sort through and mainly ignore (The owner report is a perfect example). IMO the Flames are setting themselves up to be sellers this season (Kadri report of moving from NMC to NTC). It is all about timing and when the other teams want to pull that trigger. 15 games into the season is not that time.
I think looking back at the Lindholm trade you can see that January is when teams start to get serious. Like it or not the pieces people want traded will probably not move until after Christmas.
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My interpretation of that season is
- The team went into the season prepared to give the team one more chance to show they were competitive and open to re-signing key guys (primarily Lindholm and Hanifin)
- Once the team started off so poorly they shifted approach
- However, they remained open to re-signing Hanifin given his age and quality of player.
- Hanifin engineered a trade to Vegas by basically making sure it was known he would only sign there, reducing the trade value
I don't think there is unreasonable about that or how the Flames managed it. i have no issue with the Flames trying to re-sign Hanifin.
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This is MIkael Backlund's 18th season with the Flames (well, 17, but he made a 1 game appearance as a rookie).
He has earned the right to choose to either finish off his career in Calgary, or go cup hunting. He isn't an impediment to the rebuild. In fact, he has a very long history of helping break-in players into the league, and is helping to do so right now with Honzek.
As for the rebuild - if Conroy announces that the Flames are rebuilding, but doesn't make any corresponding moves for the next month, will people actually believe him? Or do you literally have to see every single vet being traded-out for futures? No team really does that. Nobody. San Jose didn't, Chicago didn't...
I expect Andersson + Kadri (probable) traded at some point before the deadline. Coleman is a maybe, but doubtful until next season (at some point either in the off-season or up until the deadline). Whom else needs to be moved before this is a 'rebuild' for some of you?
As for Edwards "loving the core" - I take it either as media speak, or perhaps he does actually really like the players on a personal level, and will be sad to see them go. If he loved this core, Andersson would have been re-signed already. Plus, Kadri has been in the rumour mill for a while now, and neither Kadri nor Conroy have stated anything one way or another.
This is already a very substantial rebuild, and we are witnessing the Flames bottoming-out because of it. A good portion of people predicted this outcome LAST season, but it didn't happen as they were running on fumes. Now we have arrived, and through all of the evidence, people are still not accepting that this is a rebuild? I honestly don't get it.
As for being competitive when the building opens - I don't that's actually a 'plan'. I think the plan was to bottom-out last season, but it didn't happen. Now they will bottom-out this season, and likely next season, and then open up the new building with a young and fresh team with Backlund, Huberdeau and Weegar (probably) as the only carry-over vets, and with two high-end picks plus a very young but talented supporting cast. That's not success, but I argue it is enough to sell hope and provide a foundation for future success, and that's good with me.
Backlund is still a good player. His assignment was Kaprizov last night and he didn't do much 5 on 5 (got the ENG and some chances on the powerplay).
See link above. Hanifin signed for less. Also the main point to what I replied to was that the flames tried to keep most of these players and offered competitive contracts. The intention was not to offer contracts that they wouldn’t sign so they could sell for futures. .
Less in Vegas is not less take home pay. And Hanifin was a young player who would have fit in a rebuild.
Why on Earth are we keeping Backlund? Send him to a Cup contender for futures.
Calgary4Life said it:
Quote:
This is MIkael Backlund's 18th season with the Flames (well, 17, but he made a 1 game appearance as a rookie).
He has earned the right to choose to either finish off his career in Calgary, or go cup hunting. He isn't an impediment to the rebuild. In fact, he has a very long history of helping break-in players into the league, and is helping to do so right now with Honzek.
Backlund is still a good player. His assignment was Kaprizov last night and he didn't do much 5 on 5 (got the ENG and some chances on the powerplay).
Agreed 100%. Hey may not be quite as good as he was 3 seasons ago, but I still think his defensive abilities are at an elite-level still. I think he will still be an effective NHL'er through his next contract, though I would expect a decline as he continues to age.
Sometimes it simply isn't worth trading a guy. I think he can provide a valuable role on the team - still helping to shoulder the load defensively, while also mentoring the new kids. Either way, he has earned his right IMO, trade clause or not.
Some people don't get that Conroy, as an ex veteran player, might think there's an obligation to give at least a token offer to expiring vets who have given a lot to the team. And that token offer, if accepted, would have been a real bargain and the player would therefore still be tradable.
I would think at the very least offering a contract helps with price discovery.
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I’ll also say that Backlund’s proven ability to shelter and mentor young players is worth way WAY more to a rebuilding team than the 2nd or 3rd rounder or whatever we’d get in trade for him.
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Less in Vegas is not less take home pay. And Hanifin was a young player who would have fit in a rebuild.
Well now you’ve moved the goal posts of it not being true at all. It doesn’t matter though that wasn’t the main point of the reply so we can kill this conversation.
It hurts to see them never win (or score) again, but it's the only language that will make the Flames leadership do "the right thing".
Keeping Andersson last year wasn't the right thing.
"Owing" players that have "Earned the Right!" whom you've already paid tens of millions of dollars to isn't the right thing.
Living in a fantasy world of "just get in and it'll be like 04" isn't the right thing.
This is the perfectscenario for any long term Flames fan. The hand is finally being forced, and because it's early in the season, nobody has to pretend it's anything otherwise.
Well now you’ve moved the goal posts of it not being true at all. It doesn’t matter though that wasn’t the main point of the reply so we can kill this conversation.
No, the goalposts haven't moved. "Around $7.5" (no one quoted an actual amount) in Calgary is a lower salary than $7.35 in Vegas. The math isn't hard.
The denial from a good portion of this board is flabbergasting. How much more evidence do you need? Murray Edwards wants a team of recognizable names that are at least giving the perception of competing for a playoff spot. He wants that to sell tickets. Which is why this team has been the most consistently mediocre team in the NHL.
Fortunately, the Flames are bad enough this year they may not have a choice. But my goodnrss have they ever tried to keel themselves near mediocre.
I just don't know what else to say to people on this subject. Read my post again, that you quoted - there is information in there.
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It hurts to see them never win (or score) again, but it's the only language that will make the Flames leadership do "the right thing".
Keeping Andersson last year wasn't the right thing.
"Owing" players that have "Earned the Right!" whom you've already paid tens of millions of dollars to isn't the right thing.
Living in a fantasy world of "just get in and it'll be like 04" isn't the right thing.
This is the perfectscenario for any long term Flames fan. The hand is finally being forced, and because it's early in the season, nobody has to pretend it's anything otherwise.
Burn this mother to the studs.
Burn the studs!
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And the irony that you would use the word denial on others, then spew garbage about Edwards just wanting the perception of competitiveness, is hilarious.
Well now you’ve moved the goal posts of it not being true at all. It doesn’t matter though that wasn’t the main point of the reply so we can kill this conversation.
Your main point was already patiently and sufficiently addressed, I think.
Instead of rumours, hearsay, and what the Flames didn’t do, it seems way more reasonable to judge the Flames on what they did do, and listen to the stories management and players tell about these situations after the fact, instead of holding on to incomplete or untrue rumours as your source of truth.
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Regarding Backlund, I think after the contract was signed, you don't have to look that hard to see that Backlund's priority is about his Flames legacy and less about chasing cups. He came into the season 150 odd games behind Iginla for most games played as a Calgary Flame. That obviously means something to him and was given the 2 year extension to make it a reality.
If you ask me, I think that is clearly something the management group could get behind as it is a story that gives the franchise and fans something to look forward to as they are near rock bottom.
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