Friedman: Flames in 'Danger zone'

[Jiri Hrdina]

To be clear I have no issue with what Zito did. None.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah the Panthers success has more to do with Zito being shrewd than it does location.

Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling, Bennett, Verhaghe were all shrewd acquisitions.

Especially the Tkachuk trade. Trading a 115 point forward, a top 4 dman, a 1st and a prospect for a player was seeing as a huge win for the Flames and people questioned it for Florida at the time of the trade.

That trade took guts that most NHL GMs don't have.

Vegas too very rarely makes the save move, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

Part of my issue with the Flames organization is I feel like they always try to make the safe decision - from management right down to how they play on the ice.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I do think we are very nice as an organization, but it does not necessarily lead to winning. I sometimes wish we were a little more ruthless like Vegas or Florida who are more about making the right moves for the team.

Like when Florida traded Huberdeau without talking to him, because they knew it would help them long term. Yes, it soured their relationship with Huberdeau and he was vocal about how he was not happy with the situation, but no one cares about that now that they are winning.

Players are still wanting to go there. Players want to play for a winner.

That said, you can't trade Backlund after he just signed an extension and is your captain.

You're missing the point completely.

Florida and Vegas can be ruthless because their market dictates players will always want to play there.

Calgary is a no market, so a differentiation by class and loyalty may get them out of the bottom seven.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

While the tax break advantage is significant, if you build a winner players will want to come here. Players were not lining up to go to the Panthers before they started winning.

Vegas has known nothing but winning, so it is hard to say for sure in that situation.

Bure signed with Fla immediately after being traded there. Luongo preferred Fla to anywhere else and didn't want to leave (but he made unusual demands leading to the trade to Van) and then of course went back there.

[Strange Brew]

I don't know, seems like something is not working right. NHL, NBA and NFL all have salary caps.

Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Buffalo, Cleveland all have some of the best teams in those leagues and you don't hear about how no one wants to play in those cities.

But it is a constant refrain here.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah the Panthers success has more to do with Zito being shrewd than it does location.

Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling, Bennett, Verhaghe were all shrewd acquisitions.

Especially the Tkachuk trade. Trading a 115 point forward, a top 4 dman, a 1st and a prospect for a player was seeing as a huge win for the Flames and people questioned it for Florida at the time of the trade.

That trade took guts that most NHL GMs don't have.

Vegas too very rarely makes the save move, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

Part of my issue with the Flames organization is I feel like they always try to make the safe decision - from management right down to how they play on the ice.

I mean location is why Tkachuk left and location is why they were on his list...you cant just pretend it wasnt a factor

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't know, seems like something is not working right. NHL, NBA and NFL all have salary caps.

Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Buffalo, Cleveland all have some of the best teams in those leagues and you don't hear about how no one wants to play in those cities.

But it is a constant refrain here.

To put it bluntly, none of those leagues hand out no-trade clauses to every veteran worthy of a long-term deal. And none of those cities are in Canada.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I mean location is why Tkachuk left and location is why they were on his list...you cant just pretend it wasnt a factor

Tkachuk also took a shorter contract because Treliving signed Frolik, saw Bennett traded to Florida and have success, and then watched Treliving fumble Gaudreau. It was a lot more than just location.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't know, seems like something is not working right. NHL, NBA and NFL all have salary caps.

Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Buffalo, Cleveland all have some of the best teams in those leagues and you don't hear about how no one wants to play in those cities.

But it is a constant refrain here.

You didn't name a single Canadian city in another league (there aren't many).

I think it's a variable

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The 1000 games thing doesn’t seem all that newsworthy to me. A Kadri trade will take a long time to come together even if they were ready to move now.

Yeah, if he was scheduled to play game #1000 in January, it would be something to talk about. As it is, he's scheduled to play it in the first home game after the upcoming road trip, so the ceremony will either be that night or two nights later.

Either way, he'll have his silver stick two weeks from now. Even if Conroy has been taking calls, it's unlikely a trade would come together that quickly anyway.

[Rhett44]

The only reason Draisatl re signed in Edmonton is because of McDavid. So it absolutely is beneficial to draft a franchise player.

I know there are advantages being in lower tax states, but just look at Kadri signing here. He said he had other options and chose to come here because he wanted to win. Granted, it all fell apart and Huberdeau ended up being poop after we traded for him, but players will come to a winner or to a team with a generational player.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't know, seems like something is not working right. NHL, NBA and NFL all have salary caps.

Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Buffalo, Cleveland all have some of the best teams in those leagues and you don't hear about how no one wants to play in those cities.

But it is a constant refrain here.

The NHL is kinda unique in pro sports globally. People talk about top UFA's not wanting to play in Canada due to pressure which is kinda nonsense. You think top soccer plays don't feel pressure playing in the UK, France, Italy etc.

In the NHL, you can be a top player, in the top league, making top salary and winning championships and be in a market where your sport is a non factor, like a lot of US markets. That just doesn't happen in other sports

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You didn't name a single Canadian city in another league (there aren't many).

I think it's a variable

Well Toronto seems to do ok in those other leagues. Canadian and European hockey players don’t want to play in Canada? Maybe.

If NBA players didn’t want to play in smaller colder weather markets, they’d have lots of other choices.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

To put it bluntly, none of those leagues hand out no-trade clauses to every veteran worthy of a long-term deal. And none of those cities are in Canada.

And they don’t hand out 8 year contracts either. IMO there’s a world of difference in how NHL teams are run compared to other major pro sports teams.

While I agree there is a Canada factor, those other leagues aren’t made up of a majority of Canadian and European athletes either.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Toronto is a major city compared to Ottawa, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton. I think Vancouver is also a pretty attractive location for some.

I think the point is there are several factors that influence the ability to attract and retain players, and how much those factors matter varies by player to player. But they would include:
- Tax environment
- Ability to win and compete
- Having a star player
- Size of market including for other revenue opportunities
- Life style of the market (e.g. big city v. small city)
- Reputation of the organization
- Quality of the city
- Canada/U.S. considerations
- Climate

I think the point is Calgary has strikes against it. Some they can try to change (upgrading facility, and finding a path to compete) and others are outside their control (smaller market, northern climate, tax implications) so they can't afford to add more strikes by doing something like treating players poorly.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Tkachuk also took a shorter contract because Treliving signed Frolik, saw Bennett traded to Florida and have success, and then watched Treliving fumble Gaudreau. It was a lot more than just location.

He didn’t just fumble Gaudreau though. He traded away his best buddy in Monahan.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Tkachuk also took a shorter contract because Treliving signed Frolik, saw Bennett traded to Florida and have success, and then watched Treliving fumble Gaudreau. It was a lot more than just location.

Sure but other places get away with that kinda stuff easier...Gaudreau left for location too

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah the Panthers success has more to do with Zito being shrewd than it does location.

Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling, Bennett, Verhaghe were all shrewd acquisitions.

Especially the Tkachuk trade. Trading a 115 point forward, a top 4 dman, a 1st and a prospect for a player was seeing as a huge win for the Flames and people questioned it for Florida at the time of the trade.

.

Location had some factor to do in it. Tkachuk gave the Flames a small list and Florida was on it

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sure but other places get away with that kinda stuff easier...Gaudreau left for location too

I mean it is so long ago now, but Treliving never should have let it get to that point. He should have signed him a year before.

Thank God he is in Toronto now and we have Conroy.