[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames, Devils reignite Markstrom trade talks (again); other teams interested

[CliffFletcher]

One of the elements in a successful rebuild is prospects developing into more than they were anticipated to. That seems to be happening with Pospisil. That doesn’t make him untouchable, but it does mean he could be part of the solution.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I find it strange how Markstrom has almost no value, retention on Markstrom has almost no value and apparently Pospisil has little value.

Ottawa traded (at the time) the 12th overall pick (although they were tied in points with the 10th overall pick along with 2 second round picks for two full seasons of Chychrun. Ottawa was 5 points out of the playoffs with 22 games left at the time and had to pass 3 other teams and stay ahead of the two teams they were tied with to make the playoffs. They knew they were trading a high pick in a stronger draft than this years draft and still did it. I think people way over value the 10th overall pick based on recent history and how NHL teams seem to value those picks.

Chychrun was 24 and the Sens expected to get more than two seasons out of him.

Nobody is saying Markstrom has no value. If he gets a protected 2025 1st and a B prospect that will be more than almost any goalie has returned in a trade in a decade.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

One of the elements in a successful rebuild is prospects developing into more than they were anticipated to. That seems to be happening with Pospisil. That doesn’t make him untouchable, but it does mean he could be part of the solution.

I get that 10OV would be a great addition but it also could be nothing over time.

All great teams have a mix. You posted in another thread, Buffalo doesn't need a top 6 forward they need Coleman type players. I've posted this before as well, this is exactly what is missing in Buffalo. Tanev types on the point too.

Some players need to bring something different to the table and Pospsil does so much that is different from our other players, and he can play as well and maybe turns into a 20-25 goal guy. Hard to find this type of player too.

He's a keeper IMO

[dustygoon]

I wish our draft strategy in later rounds tilted more to finding ass kickers and dicks to play against like Pospisils vs Josh Nodler types. Zach Fischer was a decent gamble.

Just sort prospects by PIM's and start going down the list at least and grab a couple each year. Pospisil with 253 PIM's in 49 games in his draft year!

[CliffFletcher]

Nvm

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ottawa traded (at the time) the 12th overall pick (although they were tied in points with the 10th overall pick along with 2 second round picks for two full seasons of Chychrun.

If Markstrom was a lot younger then I'd agree with the comparable but he is not. Schnieder was 27 or something and putting up great stats and he got the 9th overall.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Chychrun was 24 and the Sens expected to get more than two seasons out of him.

Nobody is saying Markstrom has no value. If he gets a protected 2025 1st and a B prospect that will be more than almost any goalie has returned in a trade in a decade.

One year of Kuemper at got a 1st, a conditional 3rd and a former 32nd overall pick who played in every playoff game for the Colorado Avalanche a month before the trade as a 22 year old. Kuemper had some injury problems but almost had as high of a save percentage as his backup the year before the trade.

The Flames are trying to trade a better goalie, a significantly lower percentage of the cap than what Kuemper was (if they retain 50%). Surely if Kuemper gets what would be the equivalent of a former 1st round pick and a 1st round pick plus a conditional pick that would be the absolute floor for a Markstrom trade.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

One year of Kuemper at got a 1st, a conditional 3rd and a former 32nd overall pick who played in every playoff game for the Colorado Avalanche a month before the trade as a 22 year old. Kuemper had some injury problems but almost had as high of a save percentage as his backup the year before the trade.

The Flames are trying to trade a better goalie, a significantly lower percentage of the cap than what Kuemper was (if they retain 50%). Surely if Kuemper gets what would be the equivalent of a former 1st round pick and a 1st round pick plus a conditional pick that would be the absolute floor for a Markstrom trade.

Timmins was also was not performing that well in the AHL and his value had dropped since his draft year.

I wonder what the Flames would have to add to 28th OV to get 10OV? In picks and prospects? Huge difference in the Kuemper return vs the suggested Markstrom return. Flames would have to add another late first to trade up that far. The 1st Arizona got was end of the 1st round.

[GreenLantern2814]

Markstrom
Andersson
28th overall

Mercer
Allen
10th overall

Who says no?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

One year of Kuemper at got a 1st, a conditional 3rd and a former 32nd overall pick who played in every playoff game for the Colorado Avalanche a month before the trade as a 22 year old. Kuemper had some injury problems but almost had as high of a save percentage as his backup the year before the trade.

The Flames are trying to trade a better goalie, a significantly lower percentage of the cap than what Kuemper was (if they retain 50%). Surely if Kuemper gets what would be the equivalent of a former 1st round pick and a 1st round pick plus a conditional pick that would be the absolute floor for a Markstrom trade.

A conditional 2025 1st and Holtz (recent 7OA pick) sounds like a better return than Kuemper got.

We have no idea if retention is even on the table. I’m starting to doubt that it is.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A conditional 2025 1st and Holtz (recent 7OA pick) sounds like a better return than Kuemper got.

We have no idea if retention is even on the table. I’m starting to doubt that it is.

Okay let's say the package for Markstrom is 2025 conditional 1st + prospect.

Would everyone prefer holtz or Seamus?

[dammage79]

The Devil's just signed Casey. Don't think he's on the table.

Holtz is on the table. So Holtz.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Markstrom
Andersson
28th overall

Mercer
Allen
10th overall

Who says no?

Devils don't need a top 4 dman so I think they say no.

With Michael McLeod being done with the team, Palat ending up being a bad signing, Holtz looking like he's not top line good and maybe not even top 6. The Devils need to keep young forwards and add goalies. IMO they are set on D.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Timmins was also was not performing that well in the AHL and his value had dropped since his draft year.

I wonder what the Flames would have to add to 28th OV to get 10OV? In picks and prospects? Huge difference in the Kuemper return vs the suggested Markstrom return. Flames would have to add another late first to trade up that far. The 1st Arizona got was end of the 1st round.

He was not performing well in the AHL because he was not playing there, he was in the NHL when he was traded, that was why he played every single playoff game with the Avs that year and played in about 65% of the regular season games (pretty much every game once he was recalled).

The first Arizona got was for the next year, one could not have predicted where it would be outside it would probably be late in the first round.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A conditional 2025 1st and Holtz (recent 7OA pick) sounds like a better return than Kuemper got.

We have no idea if retention is even on the table. I’m starting to doubt that it is.

Timmins was a 22 year old dman who averaged 0.23 PPG in the NHL the season before he got traded.

Holtz is a 22 year old scoring forward who averaged 0.34 PPG in the NHL last season.

Not sure it is a much better return, if at all.

[Kipper_3434]

Where does Holtz play on the flames? We already have too many wingers, would likely have to burry Coronato or Pelletier in the minors. Should target a D-man as the add or just ask for all picks.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Devils don't need a top 4 dman so I think they say no.

With Michael McLeod being done with the team, Palat ending up being a bad signing, Holtz looking like he's not top line good and maybe not even top 6. The Devils need to keep young forwards and add goalies. IMO they are set on D.

Dougie Hamilton has missed 82 games over the last three years, and if Hamilton doesn’t play, the Devils season gets ruined.

It’s no coincidence the one time Hamilton was healthy and available, they went to the second round.

So to my thinking, the Devils need an extra reliable, affordable top-4 D who they could absolutely retain through his prime, to help cover for Dougie’s inevitable injury.

[DionTheDman]

Pospisil is attractive, but ultimately I don't think anybody's claiming he will be a core piece. When we're trying to acquire high-end core pieces to build around, these are the kinds of assets you have to give up. If we could acquire top shelf picks by just giving up old/crappy assets, we would do it all day long. That's before considering that he could be one hit away from retirement. All things considered, the team is at the stage when we're trying to acquire top end young talent. Not keep boom/bust mid 20's players.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Pretty well every player is a hit away from retirement.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Dougie Hamilton has missed 82 games over the last three years, and if Hamilton doesn’t play, the Devils season gets ruined.

It’s no coincidence the one time Hamilton was healthy and available, they went to the second round.

So to my thinking, the Devils need an extra reliable, affordable top-4 D who they could absolutely retain through his prime, to help cover for Dougie’s inevitable injury.

Hughes and Nemec both have the potential to be top pairing guys. Why pay for Andersson? He does nothing that the other 3 guys mentioned (dougie) already do.

If they add d, they also need a Tanev type. Rasmus won't touch their PP with 3 major injuries. They need a PK/Shut down dman if they trade for anything.