[PGT] Kraken beat Flames 2-1

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

You sir are delusional as can be....

No coach can save this team. Not Sutter ,Not Huska Not even the better Mitch love....

Thinking a great coach could have 2-3 more wins and be battling for playoffs? Yeah, that's super delusional.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It is the coach because with a better system it's a lopsided win.

Ummmmm. The system was the reason Seattle had no chances.

I’ll google it after. But is there a “system” that can help a stone handed third and fourth line quality roster not shoot it right in the goalie’s chest?

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Spurs

It was done in comparison to Love who equally has no winning pedigree.

Love has a much better AHL record than Huska. Does that not matter at all? I'm not saying love is the next Bowman, but he demonstrably has a better AHL record han Hudak. Love won AHL coach if the year.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Love has a much better AHL record than Huska. Does that not matter at all? I'm not saying love is the next Bowman, but he demonstrably has a better AHL record han Hudak. Love won AHL coach if the year.

No it doesn't matter when he had zero success in the play-offs and got that record with the best goalie in the league. Also as mentioned it seems that the team hasn't fallen off in anyway since he left.

Love may be a better AHL coach than Huska I don't pay attention enough to that league to care but he certainly has shown nothing to indicate he would be a better NHL coach or that he should be an NHL coach at all.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

https://www.canucksdaily.com/vancouv...s-organization

He says the Vancouver coaching is better. Tkachuk said the same thing after leaving. If course they are probably telling lies and listening to them is just my confirmation bias.

Feel free to point out all the data I am ignoring which demonstrates the Flames routinely employ top notch coaches.

Hadn't seen that full quote. Thanks.
I've not said the Flames employ top not coaches. Anywhere.

My premise is:
- They have limited choice b/c they are not an attractive market for top coaches. Even if they pay up, coaches can choose better teams, in better markets, with better facilities and a better roster. Premiere coaches may also not want to go to an organization that fires the coach every 2 years.
- The exception to this was Sutter, but that was unique because he wanted to be close to the farm.
- You then have the element that the team is paying Sutter $3M NOT to coach this team. So there are probably budget restrictions in play as well.
- I don't think any of us can evaluate, yet, if Huska is a good or bad coach. We can observe players on the ice, but I'm not nearly qualified enough to judge a coach's systems and I'm not privy to how he manages the room or runs drills, etc. I just don't know enough to offer such a definitive conclusion that some of you are.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Ummmmm. The system was the reason Seattle had no chances.

I’ll google it after. But is there a “system” that can help a stone handed third and fourth line quality roster not shoot it right in the goalie’s chest?

Well it's pretty clear the system they employ on the PP is not working. 5-10 more PP goals and they Flames are in the thick of he wild card battle.

Winning and losing in pro sports has little room for error. Not sure why Huska/Savard get a pass and the players don't.

Watching Huberdeau in back to back games have great shifts with Zary, but Huska refusing to try them together for any length of time is not smart.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Well it's pretty clear the system they employ on the PP is not working. 5-10 more PP goals and they Flames are in the thick of he wild card battle.

Winning and losing in pro sports has little room for error. Not sure why Huska/Savard get a pass and the players don't.

Watching Huberdeau in back to back games have great shifts with Zary, but Huska refusing to try them together for any length of time is not smart.

Is it the system not working or the lack of talent not working?

We have no top end forwards, no PP QB on defense, no great goal scorers. I think the system probably sucks as well but it certainly doesn't help when you have to players that can make plays on the PP either.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No, nonsense is thinking systems don't effect how a team wins or loses. The wrong system for the players you are icing will not lead to success. If the Vegas Golden Knights played Huska's perimeter no traffic system they would be where we are. Pretty much every hockey expert predicted the Flames to be at least a WC team this year looking at their talent, I think I will take their read on the roster with a little more weight than yours.

Were the experts predicting huberdeau to be our 11th leading scorer?

I don’t think the Flames predicament has as much to do with coaching (outside of the powerplay) as it does lack of talent. Sharengovich and maybe Zary are the only players who I would say have scoring touch on this team. Do you think any of the top teams in the league would trade their roster situation for that??

I think the Flames have good goaltending. Decent defence. Pretty good depth. But I think it’s obvious the biggest deficiency is top end talent in the forward group. We don’t have a “best” player or a top line. Coleman is our leading goal scorer for crying out loud. COLEMAN! Our top point producer is 83rd in the league. Our highest paid player is 11th on team scoring.

Bottom line is our forwards are horrible at scoring. Unfortunately that’s probably the one skill that’s the hardest to coach. I think it’s a no win situation for any coach. I guess how many coaches do we have to roll through here before the spotlight starts getting pointed at the coach killing players?

Dillen Dube where are you?
Hello eat bread. Are you dressed tonight?
Mr Huberdeau. On the scoresheet this month?
Lindy. How’s that open net treating you?

The only forwards I think are earning their paycheques night in and night out are Kadri, Coleman, Zary, Pospisil, Sharangovich, Backlund, Greer. None of them are going to carry you to a championship though. They are all supporting cast.

It’s too bad. Because the effort is clearly there. But the talent isn’t. The Huberdeau situation is franchise wrecking. Not sure if there has been a comparible one. At least in order of magnitude.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Spurs

No it doesn't matter when he had zero success in the play-offs and got that record with the best goalie in the league. Also as mentioned it seems that the team hasn't fallen off in anyway since he left.

Love may be a better AHL coach than Huska I don't pay attention enough to that league to care but he certainly has shown nothing to indicate he would be a better NHL coach or that he should be an NHL coach at all.

So what has Huska shown then? Saying I would have preferred Love over Huska isn't me saying he is going to be an amazing coach. It's me saying I think there was a better chance of his AHL record translating to the NHL than of Huska's WHL record translating.

I didn't say Love was the best person for the job if you consider all possible candidates. And being better han Huska isn't a crazy stretch.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Is it the system not working or the lack of talent not working?

We have no top end forwards, no PP QB on defense, no great goal scorers. I think the system probably sucks as well but it certainly doesn't help when you have to players that can make plays on the PP either.

Watching Andersson is infuriating. What he does is gets a pass that puts him in the opportune position where we've pulled the opposition away and he can either rifle a shot or get in even deeper (this is where teams score, when the D-man gets the open ice to walk in closer) and he instead does a spin around back to the point, or holds it and waits for a covered player to get open again where he negates the open ice we just created.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Is it the system not working or the lack of talent not working?

We have no top end forwards, no PP QB on defense, no great goal scorers. I think the system probably sucks as well but it certainly doesn't help when you have to players that can make plays on the PP either.

Well you can change a system much easier than changing your entire forward group. Maybe try that? Mix the lines up. Huberdeau was looking good last night, maybe try moving him to PP1 and see what happens.

There is also a large gap between super elite talent and what the Flames look like right now. I think we are seeing under achieving almost across the board with the exception of Weegar, Zary, Coleman and Sharangovich. It's the coaches job to get the most out of the players, and Huska isn't doing it.

Needing fresh eyes on the group and going with the assistant coach isn't just lazy, it was the move of a scared organization. Like trying to extend Trelieving after he did such a horrible job.

I don't think Huska has this team doing anything well outside of the PK. And since that makes up the other 50+ minutes io the game that is a massive fail in his part.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

So what has Huska shown then? Saying I would have preferred Love over Huska isn't me saying he is going to be an amazing coach. It's me saying I think there was a better chance of his AHL record translating to the NHL than of Huska's WHL record translating.

I didn't say Love was the best person for the job if you consider all possible candidates. And being better han Huska isn't a crazy stretch.

To me Huska has shown nothing, I didn't want him as coach, although if we finally go the rebuild route he is a fine option to eat losses while we suck until we bring in a new coach as the players at least seem to like playing for him.

I just think there is nothing between them that would indicate one is better suited than the other. Love's AHL record looks to be largely based on the talent he had more than him being a great coach. Huska has the longer term success although at a lower level that doesn't necessarily translate to NHL success.

I am just pointing out I don't see anything in Love's past to show me that he is better (or worse really) than Huska. Neither seem like guys that should be considered for NHL jobs and likely only were considered for the Flames because they were with the organization. I think if both were with the Jets organization with the same resumes they wouldn't have got a minute of thought for the Calgary job.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Spurs

To me Huska has shown nothing? I didn't want him as coach, although if we finally go the rebuild route he is a fine option to eat losses while we suck until we bring in a new coach as the players at least seem to like playing for him.

I just think there is nothing between them that would indicate one is better suited than the other. Love's AHL record looks to be largely based on the talent he had more than him being a great coach. Huska has the longer term success although at a lower level that doesn't necessarily translate to NHL success.

I am just pointing out I don't see anything in Love's past to show me that he is better (or worse really) than Huska. Neither seem like guys that should be considered for NHL jobs and likely only were considered for the Flames because they were with the organization. I think if both were with the Jets organization with the same resumes they wouldn't have got a minute of thought for the Calgary job.

That's well reasoned and makes sense to me.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Well you can change a system much easier than changing your entire forward group. Maybe try that? Mix the lines up. Huberdeau was looking good last night, maybe try moving him to PP1 and see what happens.

There is also a large gap between super elite talent and what the Flames look like right now. I think we are seeing under achieving almost across the board with the exception of Weegar, Zary, Coleman and Sharangovich. It's the coaches job to get the most out of the players, and Huska isn't doing it.

Needing fresh eyes on the group and going with the assistant coach isn't just lazy, it was the move of a scared organization. Like trying to extend Trelieving after he did such a horrible job.

I don't think Huska has this team doing anything well outside of the PK. And since that makes up the other 50+ minutes if the game that is a massive fail in his part.

What system is going to have success with the best forwards being Kadri, Zary, Coleman, Lindholm and Sharangovich? That is not a list of guys that will get anytime on successful PP's. And then throw in the defense in which none are able to run a PP effectively and you are limited.

Are there changes that could be made? Of course, are they likely to make significant improvements given the players we have, hard to imagine that.

I think Huska has been fine with the team defensively, not great but fine. The likelihood with this team is that you bring in a coach to pump up the offense you start to see more goals given up. They don't have the skill to create goals without cheating and don't have the defenseman that can cover if put into bad spots.

This coaching isn't great, Savard has done nothing to indicate he should be a coach at the NHL level but it ultimately still comes down to this team not being close to good enough playerwise. That is the main problem with the team and Bowman, Cooper, Arbour, Badger Bob etc. aren't fixing that.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Well it's pretty clear the system they employ on the PP is not working. 5-10 more PP goals and they Flames are in the thick of he wild card battle.

I don't know. I thought the power play has looked a fair bit better the past few games, and if not for an absolutely dazzling save on Lindholm's chance in the second (third?), it would have gone 2-for-5.

Winning and losing in pro sports has little room for error. Not sure why Huska/Savard get a pass and the players don't.

For the same reason that NHL *ROOKIES* like Coronato, or Zary, or Wolf get a little more room than seasoned veterans? Both Huska and Savard are brand new in their positions; it's a little early to make pronouncements about their capabilities as NHL coaches. When Jared Bednar coached his first season in the NHL I thought he was probably the worst coach I had ever seen. Bruce Cassidy likewise grinded it out for years between the AHL and NHL before becoming a coaching maven in Boston. Sometimes these things take time.

Watching Huberdeau in back to back games have great shifts with Zary, but Huska refusing to try them together for any length of time is not smart.

"Refusing to try them together" is your impression; not an actual fact. Yeah, I would love to see Zary and Huberdeau together for some regular shifts, but was last night really the best game for this? Zary was also great in his regular spot—as always, and Huberdeau also had a really strong game with Backlund and Coleman. I bet we'll see the Huberdeau/Zary combination again before too long, but the coaches have an entire bench to manage, and I didn't see that this was an issue last night. Rather, I think the bench management has been really good all season.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Well it's pretty clear the system they employ on the PP is not working. 5-10 more PP goals and they Flames are in the thick of he wild card battle.

Winning and losing in pro sports has little room for error. Not sure why Huska/Savard get a pass and the players don't.

Watching Huberdeau in back to back games have great shifts with Zary, but Huska refusing to try them together for any length of time is not smart.

I don’t disagree on the powerplay. It looks like sandlot football at times.

I’m betting Huska doesn’t want to break up the Kadri line as it’s the one line that’s consistently going.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Spurs

What system is going to have success with the best forwards being Kadri, Zary, Coleman, Lindholm and Sharangovich? That is not a list of guys that will get anytime on successful PP's. And then throw in the defense in which none are able to run a PP effectively and you are limited.

Are there changes that could be made? Of course, are they likely to make significant improvements given the players we have, hard to imagine that.

I think Huska has been fine with the team defensively, not great but fine. The likelihood with this team is that you bring in a coach to pump up the offense you start to see more goals given up. They don't have the skill to create goals without cheating and don't have the defenseman that can cover if put into bad spots.

This coaching isn't great, Savard has done nothing to indicate he should be a coach at the NHL level but it ultimately still comes down to this team not being close to good enough playerwise. That is the main problem with the team and Bowman, Cooper, Arbour, Badger Bob etc. aren't fixing that.

Is it not possible that other players may play better in a different system? It's not all one or the other. Sure, if we had the best players in the league they would likely work in any system, but we don't, and so the system used needs to be what gets the most out of the key players. I don't see that with Huska.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't know. I thought the power play has looked a fair bit better the past few games, and if not for an absolutely dazzling save on Lindholm's chance in the second (third?), it would have gone 2-for-5.


For the same reason that NHL *ROOKIES* like Coronato, or Zary, or Wolf get a little more room than seasoned veterans? Both Huska and Savard are brand new in their positions; it's a little early to make pronouncements about their capabilities as NHL coaches. When Jared Bednar coached his first season in the NHL I thought he was probably the worst coach I had ever seen. Bruce Cassidy likewise grinded it out for years between the AHL and NHL before becoming a coaching maven in Boston. Sometimes these things take time.


"Refusing to try them together" is your impression; not an actual fact. Yeah, I would love to see Zary and Huberdeau together for some regular shifts, but was last night really the best game for this? Zary was also great in his regular spot—as always, and Huberdeau also had a really strong game with Backlund and Coleman. I bet we'll see the Huberdeau/Zary combination again before too long, but the coaches have an entire bench to manage, and I didn't see that this was an issue last night. Rather, I think the bench management has been really good all season.

Fair, I should have said unwilling to put them together.

I think swapping Pospisil and Huberdeau could be very interesting.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Is it not possible that other players may play better in a different system? It's not all one or the other. Sure, if we had the best players in the league they would likely work in any system, but we don't, and so the system used needs to be what gets the most out of the key players. I don't see that with Huska.

Outside of Hubredeau I don’t think anyone is really playing below their level and plenty who are playing better than expected.

This is just not a good group of players, there isn’t much more to get out of them.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Outside of Hubredeau I don’t think anyone is really playing below their level and plenty who are playing better than expected.

This is just not a good group of players, there isn’t much more to get out of them.

I’d put Dube, Mangiapane, Ruzicka below par as a start.