[PGT] Flames lose 8-2 to the Kings

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Both Johnny and Tkachuk have come out at different times and said that they weren't big fans of Sutters. Tkachuk more recently.

But both did have career years along with Lindholm. But go back and watch how they played, they were completely east/west and Sutter seemed to let it go.

Whether that was the line tuning him out, or allowing them more freedom we'll never know. But its very evident and stands out clearly as to why they were the best in the NHL.

It's not all on Sutter, goaltending remains to be league worst.
Doesn't help when your top players aren't putting up points like they're paid to do, but Sutter's as much to blame for that in my mind.
He makes the lines, he rolls 4 lines more than any other coach in the league. He staples his star players to the bench game in and game out.

Kind of weird to me that there's been basically confirmation that there's a rift between GM and Coach, veteran & star players and the coach, prospects and the coach all in the same season.

Yet this coach is still given a pass because he's Sutter and he's won 2 cups

This team needs an enema.



Best LW in the NHL and he's a "dud" - Okay lol.
Career PPG player "dud"
He's a whiner for being blindsided by a team who told him they were going to resign him to the place where he's played his entire career - Okay.

Yep, suck it up Huberdeau you dud your feelings as a human mean nothing.

You do understand there's a human element to being a pro-athlete yea? Very easy to GM from the confinements of your computer chair and ignore all aspects of humanity.

I don't have an answer, but its VERY clear the Coach is an issue after having confirmed rifts with both the GM and players this year.

Your vendetta against the coach is beyond odd when you have clear and obvious issues like the goaltending being awful, and star players not even coming close to expectation. By rights, this team should be so far out of the playoff race it isn't even funny, but somehow this staff has the team still, after all of this on the cusp.

That isn't bad coaching. It is quite the opposite. Sutter has his flaws and has played a part in the season this team is having, but he certainly hasn't lost the room (last night aside).

When do the "human" excuses end for Huberdeau? If you're paid massive sums of money to perform (and willingly sign with an organization), would anyone else in any other sport or industry be given 10, 12 or 18 months to figure it out and produce to even an acceptable level?

I have been somewhat lenient of Huberdeau until the last month or so, but for me, the leash is at its end when it is actively submarining the team. As a fan, you are seeing zero signs of any positive progression out of the player and questions need to be asked about his character.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Your vendetta against the coach is beyond odd when you have clear and obvious issues like the goaltending being awful, and star players not even coming close to expectation. By rights, this team should be so far out of the playoff race it isn't even funny, but somehow this staff has the team still, after all of this on the cusp.

That isn't bad coaching. It is quite the opposite. Sutter has his flaws and has played a part in the season this team is having, but he certainly hasn't lost the room (last night aside).

There's no Vendetta, the guys results speak for themselves.
What has Sutter done in the last decade that screams Stanley Cup "winner"?

Goaltending & his #1 line (BEST IN THE NHL) carried him to a Jack Adam's last year, playing a completely different system than that of which he desires.

Huge rift between GM & Sutter.
Star players aren't happy.
Veteran players aren't happy.
Star prospects "aware" of how he's treating Rookies.

Kings players locked him out of the room for the same #### the last time he coached and he was let go shortly after.

Sutter's coaching style has a shelf life, it is what it is. Everyone is saying the same thing, this isn't a personal vendetta against Sutter (wtf does anyone care about that lol) this is a GM/Team/Media vs Sutter drama being aired now in the media and its evident in the product on the ice.

Something has to give doesn't it?
Is it the players and GM or is it the Coach? You decide I guess.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Florida got rid of him because they didn't like what they saw out of him. This can't be stated enough. You simply don't see 100 point players (that want to stay put) jettisoned very often unless there are issues at play.
.

I think it was more of not wanting to sign him to a contract that he would've demanded. The 115 point year was an anomaly but Walsh his agent was going to milk everything out of it. Too much and for too long. There are some rumors about attitude issues and for example a strip club incident during last year's playoffs but I'm not sure how substantiated they are.


Either way I think he had become too complacent in Florida and I and honestly thought a trade to Calgary would be a kick in the ass that he would welcome at this point of his career. And I still think it can be but just not under Sutter.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I think it was more of not wanting to sign him to a contract that he would've demanded. The 115 point year was an anomaly but Walsh his agent was going to milk everything out of it. Too much and for too long. There are some rumors about attitude issues and for example a strip club incident during last year's playoffs but I'm not sure how substantiated they are.


Either way I think he had become too complacent in Florida and I and honestly thought a trade to Calgary would be a kick in the ass that he would welcome at this point of his career. And I still think it can be but just not under Sutter.

Why would it be a kick in the butt to be given a retirement contract ?

If he didn’t care before /had issues they sure aren’t changing now that he is payed through the end of his career

[ResAlien]

Now we’re questioning Huberdeau’s character? Nary a peep about the character of the stars that bailed or forced their way out, no we’re going to question the character of the guy who came in and said he would be here for 8 years sight unseen. The French Canadian who willingly signed up to be in Alberta for 8 years and deal with this fanbase, that’s the guy whose character we’re going to question. Top tier stuff.

[8sPOT]

The only shred of optimism I have is that Tkachuk and Gaudreau didn't exactly light it up their first season with Sutter. And then the following season it just all clicked, maybe that can happen again?

Maybe his system is not easy to learn and execute and takes time?

Its tough though, we are probably the least exciting, least entertaining Canadian team and also have the bleakest future at the moment

[Burn13]

excited to watch the Kings pound the oilers in the playoffs. That is one determined team. Their forecheck was tenacious, an outstanding effort by them last night. The Flames had trouble clearing the puck on every one of the Kings dump ins. Kings are playoff built.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why would it be a kick in the butt to be given a retirement contract ?

If he didn’t care before /had issues they sure aren’t changing now that he is payed through the end of his career

I'm thinking about a change of scenery situation mostly. I don't think the attitude issues are something to worry about with him (like they are with Kadri) but it's just human nature. He had seen a lot of losing in Florida and played without any pressure, giving him a retirement contract there could have looked awful. Moving to Calgary hopefully is a spark for him.

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Now we’re questioning Huberdeau’s character? Nary a peep about the character of the stars that bailed or forced their way out, no we’re going to question the character of the guy who came in and said he would be here for 8 years sight unseen. The French Canadian who willingly signed up to be in Alberta for 8 years and deal with this fanbase, that’s the guy whose character we’re going to question. Top tier stuff.

I specifically said they are rumors and obviously his agent also called Sutter out this year.

And there are 84 million reasons for him signing that contract, it was an overpay the minute he signed it. Everyone knew it. I really, really doubt he would have chosen Alberta willingly without an overpayment. And I really hope you don't actually believe that either. He took the biggest and longest deal available.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Burn13

excited to watch the Kings pound the oilers in the playoffs. That is one determined team. Their forecheck was tenacious, an outstanding effort by them last night. The Flames had trouble clearing the puck on every one of the Kings dump ins. Kings are playoff built.

Yeah Kings are very committed. The Backlund line would fit right in on that team. Some of our other forwards, not so much.

[Jordan!]

Thanks for 2004 Darryl.. should've never come back TBQH...

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

I couldn’t give two ####s if Edmonton are bad or not because we’re way worse than ‘bad’.

We’re mediocre bad, no hope for the future bad, because we’re expensive bad - the expensive bad you get when you hire Donald Trump’s interior designer.

At least you’d get a solid gold toilet to tweet from at 3 am instead of a Huberdeau or a Kadri.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Both Johnny and Tkachuk have come out at different times and said that they weren't big fans of Sutters. Tkachuk more recently.

But both did have career years along with Lindholm. But go back and watch how they played, they were completely east/west and Sutter seemed to let it go.

Whether that was the line tuning him out, or allowing them more freedom we'll never know. But its very evident and stands out clearly as to why they were the best in the NHL.

It's not all on Sutter, goaltending remains to be league worst.
Doesn't help when your top players aren't putting up points like they're paid to do, but Sutter's as much to blame for that in my mind.
He makes the lines, he rolls 4 lines more than any other coach in the league. He staples his star players to the bench game in and game out.

Kind of weird to me that there's been basically confirmation that there's a rift between GM and Coach, veteran & star players and the coach, prospects and the coach all in the same season.

Yet this coach is still given a pass because he's Sutter and he's won 2 cups

This team needs an enema.



This is made up, he had 31 pts in the last 20 games (mid-March to April) for the 1 spot on Florida.

The entire Florida team was soft in the playoffs, they wanted to get tougher which is why they wanted Tkachuk.
Dont forget Tkachuk was absolute dumpster fire for the Flames both playoff series, does that make him a dud too?

Best LW in the NHL and he's a "dud" - Okay lol.
Career PPG player "dud"
He's a whiner for being blindsided by a team who told him they were going to resign him to the place where he's played his entire career - Okay.

Yep, suck it up Huberdeau you dud, your feelings as a human mean nothing.
You do understand there's a human element to being a pro-athlete yea? Very easy to GM from the confinements of your computer chair and ignore all aspects of humanity.
I don't have an answer, but its VERY clear the Coach is an issue after having confirmed rifts with both the GM and players this year.

Tkachuk clearly has beef with Sutter, but Gaudreau was the opposite. I’ve only ever seen him rave about Sutter. He even said he reminded him of his dad as a coach. When did Johnny ever say anything negative?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Saqe

And there are 84 million reasons for him signing that contract, it was an overpay the minute he signed it. Everyone knew it. I really, really doubt he would have chosen Alberta willingly without an overpayment. And I really hope you don't actually believe that either. He took the biggest and longest deal available.

He was not a UFA, so he didn't know what other deals were out there, but you're right. It is a massive over pay, and you can blame the coach and teammates all you like, if you didn't tell the team and fans you were a 10.5 million player. 10.5 million means you are a difference maker no matter how the season is going.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Your vendetta against the coach is beyond odd when you have clear and obvious issues like the goaltending being awful, and star players not even coming close to expectation. By rights, this team should be so far out of the playoff race it isn't even funny, but somehow this staff has the team still, after all of this on the cusp.

That isn't bad coaching. It is quite the opposite. Sutter has his flaws and has played a part in the season this team is having, but he certainly hasn't lost the room (last night aside).

When do the "human" excuses end for Huberdeau? If you're paid massive sums of money to perform (and willingly sign with an organization), would anyone else in any other sport or industry be given 10, 12 or 18 months to figure it out and produce to even an acceptable level?

I have been somewhat lenient of Huberdeau until the last month or so, but for me, the leash is at its end when it is actively submarining the team. As a fan, you are seeing zero signs of any positive progression out of the player and questions need to be asked about his character.

Sutter can be a good coach but not the right coach for this mix of players. I don't think Huberdeau is just going to suddenly click in this system although I hope I'm wrong. Its easier to change the coach than to rebuild the whole team in Sutter's image. Knowing this ownership they will take the hard way though.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Sutter can be a good coach but not the right coach for this mix of players. I don't think Huberdeau is just going to suddenly click in this system although I hope I'm wrong. Its easier to change the coach than to rebuild the whole team in Sutter's image. Knowing this ownership they will take the hard way though.

I disagree with this a bit. This team has been plagued by poor goaltending for most of the season and the soon to be ten million dollar man has been a no show for the most part. The rest of the team has had a decent season minus Mangiapane. Huberdeau seems to be the one that doesn't fit I'll agree one hundred percent with that and that's why I'm glad I'm not in charge of fixing this. He will be an albatross if you stick with the team they have built to play Sutter hockey but if you build the team around Huberdeaus style you might as well tear it down and rebuild because the rest of the players aren't set up for run and gun in my opinion.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Now we’re questioning Huberdeau’s character? Nary a peep about the character of the stars that bailed or forced their way out, no we’re going to question the character of the guy who came in and said he would be here for 8 years sight unseen. The French Canadian who willingly signed up to be in Alberta for 8 years and deal with this fanbase, that’s the guy whose character we’re going to question. Top tier stuff.

The guy put money into a hangout section in the Dome for disadvantaged and underprivileged kids to have a chance to go to games and people are questioning his character lol

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

The guy put money into a hangout section in the Dome for disadvantaged and underprivileged kids to have a chance to go to games and people are questioning his character lol

I don't care about how nice he is. He can be nice for free. He will get paid 10.5 million to win games.

[Sec214]

If huberdeau and Kadri don’t like playing for sutter. They can request to mutually terminate their contracts… just saying

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I don't care about how nice he is. He can be nice for free. He will get paid 10.5 million to win games.

We should be more worried about the paychecks the coaching staff is stealing.

... and the GM at this point.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

He was not a UFA, so he didn't know what other deals were out there, but you're right. It is a massive over pay, and you can blame the coach and teammates all you like, if you didn't tell the team and fans you were a 10.5 million player. 10.5 million means you are a difference maker no matter how the season is going.

Well technically he wasn't an UFA but he was in his last year so he could negotiate a new deal, which happens with players of his caliber generally as soon as possible. Which also was in his favor because of the monster year he had that was a total anomaly for him and was very unlikely to repeat. Also to get that 8th year included that Calgary could offer.


I don't think he can be a difference maker of the kind you expect to get with 10.5 million. But can't blame the player for taking that deal, I would've done the same. Treliving wrote a blank cheque because there was obviously no intention (from owners I assume) to rebuild.