[Signing] Canucks sign JT Miller to extension (7 years, $8 mil AAV)

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

1.07 PPG vs 0.87 over those 3 years. But prior to VAN, Miller wasn't putting up those kind of numbers, so how much of it is him becoming a better player or just getting more offensive opportunity?

0.2PPG is significant that’s 16 points over the course of a season… that’s the difference between 65 and 81points for example. That’s more than a little bit of offense.

I agree that Miller made the most of his opportunity with Vancouver, but so did Kadri in Colorado.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

0.2PPG is significant that’s 16 points over the course of a season… that’s the difference between 65 and 81points for example. That’s more than a little bit of offense.

I agree that Miller made the most of his opportunity with Vancouver, but so did Kadri in Colorado.

I understand the math (which is why I posted it), but Miller never produced at that pace before. He was top line C and PP1 in VAN, which is going to bump his stats.

Switch their roles, and put Kadri in his place in VAN, and make Miller the #2 C in COL - the numbers would look very different.

When talking points, opportunity matters a lot.

The real question is: should he be a #1 C? IMO, the answer is: not if you want to be a competitive team. Like Kadri, he is a great #2 C.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

0.2PPG is significant that’s 16 points over the course of a season… that’s the difference between 65 and 81points for example. That’s more than a little bit of offense.

I agree that Miller made the most of his opportunity with Vancouver, but so did Kadri in Colorado.

But Kadri was playing on the second line his entire time in Colorado, minus a six-week(?) stint last season when MacKinnon was injured, and in which Kadri went on an absolute tear in his place.

Miller has had three straight years playing with a top-line assignment. Kadri had six weeks.

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[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But Kadri was playing on the second line his entire time in Colorado, minus a six-week(?) stint last season when MacKinnon was injured, and in which Kadri went on an absolute tear in his place.

Miller has had three straight years playing with a top-line assignment. Kadri had six weeks.

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I get Kadri was playing on the 2nd line. I'm pretty sure he was used on the first PP. I still think that Miller is more than a little bit better offensively.

My main point when comparing the contracts is that Kadri's seems more risky. I base it mainly on the age and consistency prior to signing the contract. If I could trade the two 1 for 1 right now, or even a year from now I would.

[dino7c]

Miller scored 38 points on the powerplay

Kadri is a far better 5 on 5 player at both ends of the ice. He is a dominant shutdown player, better fit for the Flames and what they are trying to do. Flames need to slowdown McDavid not score more on the PP at the expense of giving up more chances.

EV defence 19% vs. 75% if you want to talk more than a little bit better

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Miller scored 38 points on the powerplay

Kadri is a far better 5 on 5 player at both ends of the ice. He is a dominant shutdown player, better fit for the Flames and what they are trying to do.

I agree that I think that Kadri is a good fit for the Flames and was a good signing. I also think that Miller is a good signing for the Canucks and a good fit/contract for their team.

I was just chiming in on the discussion where you guys started to compare the contracts. In that case I prefer the Miller contract for the reasons I stated.

[Kasi]

I don’t think Kadri is a dominant shutdown player. He’s not Barkov or Bergeron or even Lindholm. JFresh’s charts certainly don’t show that. He is a good all around center and I agree the Flames need that more than an offensive first guy like Miller because of McDavid. It would be nice if he was 29-30 and not 32 but at least the contract is buyout friendly.

Edit: https://flamesnation.ca/2022/08/20/w...algary-flames/

Goes over some but Kadri is actually more of an offensive player than a defensive player. It’s quite possible he’s our worst defensive center of our top 3. I do wonder if it’s possible Kadri ends up with Huberdeau. Anyway Kadri has an edge and he plays a good all around game. But any claims he’s a defensive shutdown center are not supported by facts.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Kasi

I don’t think Kadri is a dominant shutdown player. He’s not Barkov or Bergeron or even Lindholm. JFresh’s charts certainly don’t show that. He is a good all around center and I agree the Flames need that more than an offensive first guy like Miller because of McDavid. It would be nice if he was 29-30 and not 32 but at least the contract is buyout friendly.

So he's not one of the 3 best lol...neither is Miller at anything and he is BAD defensively

Kadri got a selke vote and has really high metrics, will be the Flames #2 center. He is a very good defensive player.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Miller's not really all that bad defensively for the most part from what I've seen. He definitely has a tendency to give up on plays when he gets frustrated by a missed call or something, especially in OT, but he's competent positionally and doesn't get walked and he's big enough to move guys. It's just that the Canucks entire team, pretty much, was a tire fire for the first half of the season and then slightly above average in that department under Boudreau. That was very obvious on the PK, which under Green was the worst in the history of the NHL and then under Boudreau was like... 11th? That being said this iteration of the Canucks has never been anything but weak defensively; it's a poorly constructed roster.

Kadri is clearly the better 5v5 player based on last season, but for me the question is really about how long each guy can keep their level up before age catches up with them.

[Kasi]

No he’s an average defensive player. Selke votes you know are pretty worthless. It’s usually given now as some reward to a player who got a bunch of points that won’t qualify for major awards. If it was a pure defensive award than getting 60 points wouldn’t be a prerequisite to getting the award. This is not the 80s where actual players with no offensive stats would win the award. Anyway you said shutdown. 51 DFR just shows that not to be true at all. I feel quite confident that Backlund and Lindholm are both better defensive players than him. What he at least not is is a tire fire on defense but no one should expect him to just shut down McDavid. He’s not going to do that anymore than Backlund or Lindholm did. He’s a good all around player (offense better than defense) with some edge in his game. We need that more than an all PP/offense guy like Miller so I’d rather have Kadri.

[dino7c]

Kadri was great when it mattered most at both ends of the ice

Well above average

Entire Canucks roster choked until they were totally out of it and then choked again when they got "close"
Kadri won't shut down McDavid himself but he will certainly contribute with those 3 centers, system, D, and goaltending.

Kadri is going to have insane defensive metrics this season IMO.

[djsFlames]

Very true. You want players that can elevate when the season is on the line.

it seems like Kadri has an extra gear for those games. Not sure you can say the same for Miller. It felt like many of their top players choked last spring when POs were in reach.

Their fans will chalk it up to having to come back from the hole they were in, but it was fairly obvious that when the pressure mounted, they struggled, whereas when the pressure was off they did the bulk of their winning.

[Kasi]

Well hopefully that carries through here with both his age and post getting a bit contract. There is real fears of fans this turns into another overpaid vet signing. I don’t think it’s that big a worry given his mental make up and that he has historically been a player who has always tried too hard rather than not enough, but there certainly is a risk on it. For the next 3-4 years I do think he fits this roster much better than someone like Miller would. We already have a Miller like offensive player with Huberdeau I think we need a more balanced group.

I think offensive fit Kadri is likely our second best playmaker other than Huberdeau. So maybe they won’t put the two together. Basically have Huberdeau set up Lindy and Kadri set up Mangiapane. Leave Backlund and Coleman as the shutdown line. Very curious to see how training camp sets up the lines.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

So he's not one of the 3 best lol...neither is Miller at anything and he is BAD defensively

Kadri got a selke vote and has really high metrics, will be the Flames #2 center. He is a very good defensive player.

Sort of a funny thing to say when Miller got more votes.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

1.07 PPG vs 0.87 over those 3 years. But prior to VAN, Miller wasn't putting up those kind of numbers, so how much of it is him becoming a better player or just getting more offensive opportunity?

pourque no los dos?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Sort of a funny thing to say when Miller got more votes.

19% EV defence vs. 75% EV defence

not sure what Canuck homer voted for Miller but it was obviously a joke

Kadri will have ridiculously good defensive numbers in Calgary IMO

Miller is a good PP scorer

[djsFlames]

Who on God's green earth gave Puljujarvi 3 votes?

Spector and two guys Spector held at gunpoint?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Who on God's green earth gave Puljujarvi 3 votes?

Spector and two guys Spector held at gunpoint?

I guess I have to concede Selke votes are irrelevant based on this information

Kadri is a better defensive player than Miller though and its not even close. He is also much harder to play against. I think he gives the Flames that boost in the big games, moments...something they have needed.

[powderjunkie]

A 4th place vote is worth 3 points:

Kevin Bieksa voted Kadri 4th

Erin Brown (THN) & Sheng Peng (Fear the Fin - whatever that is) both voted Miller 4th

Ryan Kennedy (THN) voted JP 4th


None appear to have local links to the associated teams.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

A 4th place vote is worth 3 points:

Kevin Bieksa voted Kadri 4th

Erin Brown (THN) & Sheng Peng (Fear the Fin - whatever that is) both voted Miller 4th

Ryan Kennedy (THN) voted JP 4th


None appear to have local links to the associated teams.

seems legit lol