The world has gone to crap and there's little we can do to fix it.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Matata

The polar ice caps were supposed to melt 10 years ago, so this is all gravy time. Live it up, have some kids, eviscerate a dog, the worlds a beautiful place.

To paraphase a quote "somewhere out there, some fool is peacefully meditating next to a waterfall, completely unaware of terrified he should be of everything." Participation in the fear-parade is a choice, dont surrender your mind to the fear mongers.

I love it.

[Mathgod]

I'm genuinely curious. How many of the people saying "don't participate in the fear parade" have security systems installed in their homes, fences around their properties, oppose all gun control legislation, and pre-screen who their daughters are allowed to date?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I'm genuinely curious. How many of the people saying "don't participate in the fear parade" have security systems installed in their homes, fences around their properties, oppose all gun control legislation, and pre-screen who their daughters are allowed to date?

No security, 5 foot fences, own 5 guns, don't have a daughter

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I'm genuinely curious. How many of the people saying "don't participate in the fear parade" have security systems installed in their homes, fences around their properties, oppose all gun control legislation, and pre-screen who their daughters are allowed to date?

That’s not a great question to answer on a public forum. “I have no security, a bunch of guns, and I am usually away during the day”.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by btimbit

No security, 5 foot fences, own 5 guns, don't have a daughter

Go on....

[CliffFletcher]

Taking precautions against your home being broken into is only irrational fear-mongering if there’s little to no chance of your home being broken into. Presumably that’s not the case for most of us.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Taking precautions against your home being broken into is only irrational fear-mongering if there’s little to no chance of your home being broken into. Presumably that’s not the case for most of us.

Great! I'm glad the conversation got to this point.

Taking sensible precautions to prevent bad things from happening to you, people you care about, and your interests in general, is not "hopping aboard the fear train", it's just being rational.

Far too often I hear people accuse others of "hopping aboard the fear train" or "fear parading", when from the looks of it they're just as guilty of it as the people they accuse.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The environmental movement is not responsible for Putin's actions. Putin is responsible for Putin's actions.

The Fukushima disaster caused a lot of worry, concern, and angst regarding nuclear power and nuclear reactors in general. Unfortunately this fear spread around the world much faster than the facts of what actually happened and why. The unfortunate result of that was a rollback in nuclear power in some countries (and possibly more rollbacks coming). Is the environmental movement partially to blame for this? Admittedly so. But on some level you can't blame them for worrying about what happens at nuclear reactors when worst case scenarios become reality. Huge releases of radioactive material, and entire swaths of earth becoming uninhabitable for thousands of years...

That said, proper plant design and safety measures can prevent this with very nearly 100% certainty. Unfortunately, proper measures were not taken in Fukushima and Chernobyl.

For the record, I'm very much in favor of humanity getting its power from modern and properly run nuclear reactors as a stop-gap until renewables devlop to the point where they can power the world.

Not sure what point you're trying to make. If I see a reckless driver kill someone on the road, my solution shouldn't be to get rid of all cars.

Poor nuclear plant design shouldn't render the entire idea of nuclear power inoperable. I don't even understand the hesitancy, considering nuclear power has been proven to be extremely safe. Hell, the US military has been using it to power subs & carriers for years without issue. Of course that isn't the issue here. The issue is the activist agenda has hijacked a movement where the end result is we'll burn more coal instead of less.

As someone who is excited about human advancement in energy technology, it sure is frustrating to see the activist green morons take a giant #### on everything the human race has built the last 10-15 years in terms of energy production.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Locke

Go on....

Hey, they asked

[Locke]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Hey, they asked

No, no...I was just waiting for more information on things, like location and times when you're not at home, you know...things of that nature.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Locke

No, no...I was just waiting for more information on things, like location and times when you're not at home, you know...things of that nature.

Well I live at 742 Evergreen Terrace, work night shift and generally leave the front door unlocked when I'm gone all night. Dogs love strangers and especially won't bug anyone that brings ham

[Locke]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Well I live at 742 Evergreen Terrace, work night shift and generally leave the front door unlocked when I'm gone all night. Dogs love strangers and especially won't bug anyone that brings ham

I'm not falling for that again!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Great! I'm glad the conversation got to this point.

Taking sensible precautions to prevent bad things from happening to you, people you care about, and your interests in general, is not "hopping aboard the fear train", it's just being rational.

Far too often I hear people accuse others of "hopping aboard the fear train" or "fear parading", when from the looks of it they're just as guilty of it as the people they accuse.

Only because I find these “it’s actually the people who complain about complainers” and “it’s actually the people who accuse others of fear” to be really convenient and lazy ways of avoid self reflection of any kind, I’m wondering if you could expand on it to make it more interesting?

Like, in what way is someone who disagrees with people “hopping aboard the fear train” actually guilty of being fearful themselves? On first glance that’s absurd, but curious to hear your reasoning.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Only because I find these “it’s actually the people who complain about complainers” and “it’s actually the people who accuse others of fear” to be really convenient and lazy ways of avoid self reflection of any kind, I’m wondering if you could expand on it to make it more interesting?

Like, in what way is someone who disagrees with people “hopping aboard the fear train” actually guilty of being fearful themselves? On first glance that’s absurd, but curious to hear your reasoning.

So basically, it was suggested that being concerned about climate change, and demanding that governments around the world take major action to combat it, is just "joining the fear parade".

Here's the problem with that. Correctly identifying that athroprogenic global warming is a real thing that is actually happening, and is caused by human activities, and will have (already is having) catastrophic consequences for humanity... has nothing to do with fear. It has everything to do with correctly assessing reality by using the scientific method, and responding in a justified manner. Scientists who have expertise in this area, and have extensively studied the matter, overwhelmingly agree on what is happening. Trusting what they're saying and responding accordingly isn't "joining a fear parade", it's simply doing what is rational.

If you say that I'm being "irrationally fearful" of climate change, I can say that you're being "irrationally fearful" of burglars, by getting a security system installed in your home, having a gun with you at your bedside, or even for locking your doors at night...

Another example of the hypocrisy of the "fear parade" narrative, was the resistance to the public health measures that were taken in response to the covid pandemic. The anti-vax crowd accused the public of fear mongering and being irrationally fearful of the virus. The irony there is that they themselves were the fear mongers, spreading irrational fears about the vaccine, mask mandates, social distancing measures, and government mandates in general.

How about another example. The world's oceans being filled with plastic and other toxic substances. Am I supposed to just ignore the problem, pretend like it's not real, and find a waterfall to meditate next to? Sorry, but the answer is no. The problem is not fake, it's not fabricated, it's real. And yes it does effect me personally, even if I was to accept the absurd notion that I should have zero regard for anything that doesn't affect me personally. With marine life is laced with plastic (and lord knows what else), the only way to avoid literally eating toxic crap from the ocean is to forgo all seafood. Which sucks, because I like certain types of fish. Then there's the cascading effects of collapsing marine ecosystems, and the unforseen consequences those may have on humanity...

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Azure

Not sure what point you're trying to make. If I see a reckless driver kill someone on the road, my solution shouldn't be to get rid of all cars.

The solution is to punish the driver, and (insofar that it's practical) take away his ability to kill anyone else on the road, while at the same time sending a message to everyone else that reckless driving comes with severe consequences.

In the Putin example, he can't get a free pass for what he's done to Ukraine, so the international community absolutely should punish him by, as quickly as is practical, phasing out trade with Russia.

Poor nuclear plant design shouldn't render the entire idea of nuclear power inoperable. I don't even understand the hesitancy, considering nuclear power has been proven to be extremely safe. Hell, the US military has been using it to power subs & carriers for years without issue. Of course that isn't the issue here. The issue is the activist agenda has hijacked a movement where the end result is we'll burn more coal instead of less.

As someone who is excited about human advancement in energy technology, it sure is frustrating to see the activist green morons take a giant #### on everything the human race has built the last 10-15 years in terms of energy production.

Again go back and read what I said about Fukushima, you can't blame people for being scared of nuclear reactors in response to what happened there, but on the other hand, they should have taken a calm, level-headed approach to learning precisely what caused the Fukushima disaster to happen and what design and procedural flaws played roles in making it happen. Such a disaster wouldn't have happened, even with the tsunami being as severe as it was, if the reactor design was one of the modern ones commonly being used today.

Nuclear power is safe, as long as it isn't being extracted via dinosaur-age technology.

[Macman]

Humans have overcome and progressed through a lot of adversity, world wars, civil wars, slavery etc. A lot of which is still going on.

Which country is the real Dr. Evil you can ask yourself or listen to Imagine by John Lennon or various other artists from the sixties.

There’s a lot of good things happening all across the world.

[Locke]

Better than the World going to Carp.

Those bastards cant be trusted!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

So basically, it was suggested that being concerned about climate change, and demanding that governments around the world take major action to combat it, is just "joining the fear parade".

I don’t think the fear parade comment was specifically about climate change, so I’m not entirely sure why you took it personally/directly. It’s the same post where he recommended people eviscerate a dog, so even if you’re dead set on taking it super seriously, there are bigger fish to fry with that one.

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Here's the problem with that. Correctly identifying that athroprogenic global warming is a real thing that is actually happening, and is caused by human activities, and will have (already is having) catastrophic consequences for humanity... has nothing to do with fear. It has everything to do with correctly assessing reality by using the scientific method, and responding in a justified manner. Scientists who have expertise in this area, and have extensively studied the matter, overwhelmingly agree on what is happening. Trusting what they're saying and responding accordingly isn't "joining a fear parade", it's simply doing what is rational.

Sure, agreed. But you’re not disproving fear as a distraction to action or even a motivation for it. Your definition of “responding accordingly” may, actually, be fear based and unhealthily/unhelpful (not yours specifically, the general you). You’re suggesting that because a threat is valid, to whatever agree, no response to it can be fear based. That’s obviously not true.

Originally Posted by Mathgod

If you say that I'm being "irrationally fearful" of climate change, I can say that you're being "irrationally fearful" of burglars, by getting a security system installed in your home, having a gun with you at your bedside, or even for locking your doors at night...

But you can’t, unless you’re being totally dishonest. It really depends on what you’re doing. Getting a security system or locking your doors is completely rational behaviour in most settings. Just as trying to reduce your emissions, recycle, eat less meat, support local businesses, etc are all rational responses the threat of climate change. Someone could be living in fear of either of these threats, and it could cause them to act irrationally or experience anxiety and depression that are excessive and beyond helpful. Regardless, if you think your reaction is rational, the correct response is to explain how you rationalise it, not take a position you think is equally absurd and start calling other stuff irrational. If anything, that proves the other person’s point.

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Another example of the hypocrisy of the "fear parade" narrative, was the resistance to the public health measures that were taken in response to the covid pandemic. The anti-vax crowd accused the public of fear mongering and being irrationally fearful of the virus. The irony in that statement is that they themselves were the fear mongers, spreading irrational fears about the vaccine, mask mandates, social distancing measures, and government mandates in general.

It’s not hypocrisy, you’re just diluting it to that because it’s easier to write it off that way. This is a good example (COVID vs vaccine fears) of what you’re talking about and supports your point in general, but that’s not an example present in this thread, so how does it support your specific position in THIS thread? How are people HERE who are talking about fear, actually the fearful ones?

Originally Posted by Mathgod

How about another example. The world's oceans being filled with plastic and other toxic substances. Am I supposed to just ignore the problem, pretend like it's not real, and find a waterfall to meditate next to? Sorry, but the answer is no. The problem is not fake, it's not fabricated, it's real. And yes it does effect me personally, even if I was to accept the absurd notion that I should have zero regard for anything that doesn't affect me personally. With marine life is laced with plastic (and lord knows what else), the only way to avoid literally eating toxic crap from the ocean is to forgo all seafood. Which sucks, because I like certain types of fish. Then there's the cascading effects of collapsing marine ecosystems, and the unforseen consequences those may have on humanity...

Well, the answer might be yes, in part. You don’t have to pretend it’s not real, but ignoring it in some cases can be better overall. Case in point, you’ve given up fish (something you love) because of micro plastics and “other stuff.” Giving up a particular food is pretty easy, so we’re not talking big stakes here, but how much firm, definitive evidence do you have that fish is blatantly unsafe to eat?

Not saying it is or isn’t, I don’t even particularly care (I like fish, and am happy to ignore the growing plastic shards seeping into my blood stream that will one day kill me in exchange for sushi every once in a while). I just think people run into this trap of believing they’re acting rationally (like people scared of vaccines, as you mentioned) when the actual risk may not match the decisions they make, however small, or the decisions they make actually fail to mitigate the risk, and I think it’s ok to consider these might be fear-based.

Still curious what you think the few posters here against “hopping aboard the fear train” are afraid of, though. What are “the looks of it” in this situation? Couldn’t we use your lazy statement and point it at scientists saying we shouldn’t fear vaccines? Are they, too, just fearful and projecting?

[GGG]

One of the AA/Al-anon Mantras appears to apply to this thread. Feel free to ignore the religious aspect and replace as appropriate

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom do know the difference.

The world becomes a relatively simple place if you can master the last line.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GGG

One of the AA/Al-anon Mantras appears to apply to this thread. Feel free to ignore the religious aspect and replace as appropriate

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom do know the difference.

The world becomes a relatively simple place if you can master the last line.

The world becomes a relatively simple place if you can master the spelling of the last line.