Buy?/Sell?/All-in?/Tank? What should the Flames do?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

If we look at last year's finals MTL were actually sellers at the deadline. The lightning were mostly set with Kucherov coming back from LTIR. In fact, I think the only teams that added that year and are still happy about it now are Florida(Bennett) and Boston(Hall).

That said I still hope something major happens with the Flames. Being in on every trade, but not getting anything done has been our moto for too long now.

David Savard.

And Coleman/Goodrow the previous TDL as 1.25 yr rentals.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

If we look at last year's finals MTL were actually sellers at the deadline.

Who did they sell? I remember them adding Eric Staal which really wasn't selling. Other than that I don't remember them doing too much else.

Plus Covid restrictions made trading players a bit tricky too.

I don't think the Flames add anything huge, but if they could find an upgrade at RW to make a Monahan line a respectable #3 line that would be a good add. Maybe add a bump in production to the 4th line too.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Who did they sell? I remember them adding Eric Staal which really wasn't selling. Other than that I don't remember them doing too much else.

Plus Covid restrictions made trading players a bit tricky too.

I don't think the Flames add anything huge, but if they could find an upgrade at RW to make a Monahan line a respectable #3 line that would be a good add. Maybe add a bump in production to the 4th line too.

I could be misremembering too, I thought they traded some players for futures/prospects. I'll look it up yeah they added Staal and Gustafsson. I apologize was sure they sold someone. Thank you for correcting me.

[Mr.Coffee]

I actually do think this team has a chance to win the cup this year. Pick up a big fast depth defender or two for the inevitable injuries and as well a middle 6 forward.

At the end of the day though it’ll depend on both Markstrom and Vladar, but I do think it’s possible.

[Classic_Sniper]

This is the final year of this window. Empty the clip. Go all in and win as many rounds as you can. Give the fanbase some memories.

Because if Gaudreau leaves, this team might as well rebuild and tear it down. Playoffs would be a distant memory for awhile if that’s the case.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

A bit of a richer move, but Alex Tuch is who I'm eyeing. Very reasonable cap-hit @ $4.75m, for another 4 seasons, and a PPG in Buffalo.
Surely, he'd warm to Calgary, vs his current situation in the basement.

Won't be cheap though. Valimaki, Dube & a 2nd.

Tuch is from the Buffalo area, finally playing for his hometown team and closer to his family. Buffalo's not getting rid of the only guy whose legitimately happy to be there

[Roof-Daddy]

If this team was going to sell, it should have been after the series loss to Dallas in the bubble. Especially since they decided to waste another season by bringing Ward back.

They are in a sticky situation now though, because if they sell futures to buy at the TDL, Gaudreau walks and Tkachuk only comes back for 1 more season with his QO, they will be forced to rebuild but with less futures in the fold.

This is why I think the best course of action is to add, but add players with some term left if possible.

[Samonadreau]

Calle Jarnkrok all Day.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Definitely not tanking or selling, or even staying status quo. They didn't bring in Sutter to tank.

I'm with those that say buy, but don't get stupid. Especially if Treliving knows something we don't know, that Johnny and Matt are back for years to come, their window isn't just this season. But that 3rd line needs a major upgrade. Get Monahan some help, if he can get going then this team will be cooking. Can't have a winger with zero points on your 3rd line, that's not going to end well.

[Knut]

We probably should spend 3rd and 4th rounders in depth Defensemen.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Are you suggesting there is a better predictor of future results than...past results?


Whatever we do, do it deliberately. The best window for a re-tool was 2-3 years ago. It doesn't really matter if the re-build starts in 1 month, 5 months, 13 months, 25 months, or a bit longer. Push all-in now. If it fails, pivot deliberately in the other direction.


This rebuild didn't [presumably] fail because of the many, many 1st and 2nd rd picks Sutter traded away from 2004-2010. The problems were not sufficiently replenishing this deficit and accelerating a rebuild built around 3.5 successfully developed draft picks from 2009-2014 (Ferland, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett)...which is both bad drafting and running a pick deficit every year but 2013.

I am.

Current results.

[Inferno]

As many others have said selling/tanking isn't even a realistic option unless things completely fall apart which I doubt will happen. No matter how much doubt you have they can win the Cup or re-sign Johnny/Tkachuk no team is going to just give up and sell when they have a good shot at making the playoffs.

If they can get a forward or two that will add secondary scoring I will be happy.

[FusionX]

I had a bunch of stuff typed out but it just felt like a wall of text so I tldr'd myself.

Essentially, my thought is can we re-tool on the fly? Realistically, it is a gamble no matter how you slice it, but perhaps we can mitigate to an extent?

Flip Tkachuk to Islanders for Barzal. Current cap hits similar, Barzal has one more year with a crazy QO (so would need to be re-signed before) while Tkachuk is the better player (especially this year) but tricky contract situation too. Isles could perhaps turn him into the face of the franchise however, and may have better luck re-signing for term and less than the 9m+ QO he's owed.

Monahan + to Columbus for Laine. He's also RFA and likely not worth what he's owed from a QO perspective so again, he'd have to be looked at being re-signed prior for some term and more palatable contract. Also, hopefully with this year and next under Sutter, maybe a bit more consistency?

Futures + to Montreal for Toffoli. This just makes so much sense with the need on the right plus also having security at a decent caphit for another couple of years.

Not sure what would have to move and contract wise, I didn't crunch any numbers but eyeballing it, we'd likely still have to move salary or bury someone.

Pipe dream? Maybe, probably. Risky? Absolutely, but that's what happens when this past off-season was a dud.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Laine
Mangiapane - Barzal - Toffoli
Dube - Backlund - Coleman
Lucic - Ruzicka - Lewis
(Ritchie/Richardson/Pitlick)

Same defence, Stone and Mackey as wildcards/depth.

[Vinny01]

There is no way Tkachuk would be moved in season. The Barzal deal is an interesting one to consider in the summer for sure

[Goriders]

This is the best flames team I’ve seen in quite a while. They play a playoff style and are bigger and tougher than they have been in quite some time. There’s no way I would tank. I think the will be a team others do not want to play if they get into the playoffs. Which I think they will unless something funny happens.

I think our goaltending and defence are both quite solid. The big need in my mind is secondary scoring. Coleman is starting to come around. But one or two legit scoring threats for the second and third lines would make the flames pretty hard to beat.

It would be nice to get more out of Dube somehow as well. Maybe bring Pelletier up for playoffs as well?

[PeteMoss]

I say go for it and I don't think there is anything I wouldn't trade to do it except maybe Coronato if he's a game changer. If you can't resign Gaudreau after the season, you are going to a rebuild regardless so might as well go for it now.

If you can't sign Gaudreau, you can restock the shelves selling his rights, Tkachuk and even Lucic with 50% retained next year.

[Vinny01]

If you can re-sign Johnny and Matthew isn’t that a reason to not go all in on rentals?

If the Flames want to stay competitive when Johnny is in his 30-35 years they should hold onto the Coronato’s, Pelletier’s and picks especially on rentals.

I still think Dube+Valimaki+2nd rounder are the assets the flames have in play. Pelletier could take the role Dube currently has next season and if he gets the team a legit top 6 forward it could be worth exploring.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If you can re-sign Johnny and Matthew isn’t that a reason to not go all in on rentals?

If the Flames want to stay competitive when Johnny is in his 30-35 years they should hold onto the Coronato’s, Pelletier’s and picks especially on rentals.

I still think Dube+Valimaki+2nd rounder are the assets the flames have in play. Pelletier could take the role Dube currently has next season and if he gets the team a legit top 6 forward it could be worth exploring.

If we can't sign Johnny and Chucky, we're going to suck for a while anyway. Coronato, Peltier, Zary etc... are fine prospects, but they're probably not going to turn us back into a competitive team, so if we can turn them into a difference maker for this season, it makes sense.
If Johnny doesn't re sign, you just sell off anyone of value next season to make up the lost prospect/draft capital.

[Fire]

Win the Cup this year then rebuild the following season.

[Monahammer]

Go all in. The flames org does not need any of the prospects likely to be drafted 15-30 this year more than they need some confidence and playoff success. Plus showing faith might make Johnny and Tkachuk more likely to re sign.

This team can do it. Trade 1st round pick/ Valimaki/Pitlick for whatever the best pieces are that you can for right now and worry about the rest in the offseason. Hopefully with at least a few rounds of playoffs under the belt.