08-20-2021, 12:44 PM
|
#141
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by greyshep
I guess we'll have another team playing in a saddledome era building if they move to Veterans Coliseum.

|
That building is almost 20 years older than the Saddledome (opened in 1965), and doesn't appear to have received any significant renovations over the years.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to getbak For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-20-2021, 12:51 PM
|
#142
|
#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary Satellite Community
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
That building is almost 20 years older than the Saddledome (opened in 1965), and doesn't appear to have received any significant renovations over the years.
|
Yes, era was not fully accurate I guess. Sure shares a similar look though.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:04 PM
|
#143
|
Jordan!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
That building is almost 20 years older than the Saddledome (opened in 1965), and doesn't appear to have received any significant renovations over the years.
|
This would only be needed for a couple of years - but i don't see it.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:07 PM
|
#144
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Metro pop of 2.1 million, 2x bigger than Calgary.
|
Houston's metro pop is over 7 million. That's the comparison.
But if you want, compare the hockey fan population of KC versus Calgary. That's why Houston being so huge is a factor - you need a smaller percentage to be attracted to the game. Plus Houston is rife with head offices who will want in on seasons tix and boxes.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:08 PM
|
#145
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
The fact that the league has fought so hard to keep the team in Phoenix flies in the face of your argument that franchise value is the only factor.
|
I listed the two factors, didn't say franchise value was the only factor. But it is huge.
Let's not get snippy here. I firmly believe that if franchises were freely moving from city to city that the group in Seattle would never have ponied up $600 million for an expansion franchise.
Limiting franchise movement absolutely keeps the value of an NHL franchise high. IMO that is precisely why they have fought so hard to make a franchise work in Phoenix.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:10 PM
|
#146
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Houston's metro pop is over 7 million. That's the comparison.
But if you want, compare the hockey fan population of KC versus Calgary. That's why Houston being so huge is a factor - you need a smaller percentage to be attracted to the game. Plus Houston is rife with head offices who will want in on seasons tix and boxes.
|
Houston is a bigger market than all of the prairies combined.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:10 PM
|
#147
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan!
This would only be needed for a couple of years - but i don't see it.
|
Jordan! what's your take on current ownership? Do they want to continue to own a sports franchise and have deep pockets to endure more losses or will they be looking to sell?
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:14 PM
|
#148
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
Houston is a bigger market than all of the prairies combined.
|
Yeah, Houston would probably have been in the league long ago but for the issue the old owner of the arena had with hockey. It's a way better fit than a half dozen other cities already in the league.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:26 PM
|
#149
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Yeah, Houston would probably have been in the league long ago but for the issue the old owner of the arena had with hockey. It's a way better fit than a half dozen other cities already in the league.
|
Really? As much as I want hockey in Houston, the best comparables IMO are Atlanta, Miami and Dallas. Kind of hit and miss.
While I believe hockey in Houston would work, it's not guaranteed.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:46 PM
|
#150
|
Jordan!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Jordan! what's your take on current ownership? Do they want to continue to own a sports franchise and have deep pockets to endure more losses or will they be looking to sell?
|
Current ownership has money, wants to keep it running, is making the correct steps to secure land in the right area of the valley and pay for the project without public money.
This Glendale thing is very spiteful on the City's part and misguided imo.
It could really Eff things up for the team when the owners have been taking the right steps for their business to run well long term in this location.
So done with Gongdale..
edit: Arizona law allows only Tribal land or to be an owner of a Sports franchise to have a sports book at your arena/location so that's a big key to the Coyotes ownership wanting to keep the team in Arizona no matter what. You're not getting that revenue stream anywhere else.
Last edited by Jordan!; 08-20-2021 at 01:54 PM.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:55 PM
|
#151
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I listed the two factors, didn't say franchise value was the only factor. But it is huge.
Let's not get snippy here. I firmly believe that if franchises were freely moving from city to city that the group in Seattle would never have ponied up $600 million for an expansion franchise.
Limiting franchise movement absolutely keeps the value of an NHL franchise high. IMO that is precisely why they have fought so hard to make a franchise work in Phoenix.
|
Um, no one is getting snippy
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 01:59 PM
|
#152
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Really? As much as I want hockey in Houston, the best comparables IMO are Atlanta, Miami and Dallas. Kind of hit and miss.
While I believe hockey in Houston would work, it's not guaranteed.
|
Houston, for all that it's down south, is way less "southern" than most of those places. Much more cosmopolitan, for a southern US city and a lot more money IMO. Their other pro hockey teams have done OK - I mean they know who Gordie Howe is, so they've got that going for them. And the AHL team didn't move because of low attendance - they moved because of arena disputes with Les Alexander. And way more ex pats (aside from snowbirds in Miami who don't have a lot of disposable income anyway). A lot of Calgarians split time working in Houston and here.
Dallas is the closest comparable and it does pretty well.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 02:05 PM
|
#153
|
Powerplay Quarterback
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by greyshep
I guess we'll have another team playing in a saddledome era building if they move to Veterans Coliseum.

|
The Madhouse on McDowell! bring back the Road Runners.
__________________
"You can put it in the loss column". Save the Corral!!
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 02:09 PM
|
#154
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Houston, for all that it's down south, is way less "southern" than most of those places. Much more cosmopolitan, for a southern US city and a lot more money IMO. Their other pro hockey teams have done OK - I mean they know who Gordie Howe is, so they've got that going for them. And the AHL team didn't move because of low attendance - they moved because of arena disputes with Les Alexander. And way more ex pats (aside from snowbirds in Miami who don't have a lot of disposable income anyway). A lot of Calgarians split time working in Houston and here.
Dallas is the closest comparable and it does pretty well.
|
The Aeros didn't do that great at all. 7th in AHL attendance in their final season, in a city 10x bigger than rest of league. But many say that's because they weren't a big league team, which is understandable. And I'll let you know the next time I run into a Houstonian who remembers Gordie Howe.
I don't know if cosmopolitan is the word I'd use for Houston but it is diverse. Large Latino population which historically is not a strong hockey market.
The difference in minor hockey between Dallas and Houston is immense too. Way more rinks, players and elite programs in Dallas.
So we'll see, It's no slam dunk. The oil connection with Calgary is real but you'd expect more youth hockey as a result.
The biggest thing going for Houston is it's size.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 02:11 PM
|
#155
|
Backup Goalie
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Calgary
Exp:  
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Really? As much as I want hockey in Houston, the best comparables IMO are Atlanta, Miami and Dallas. Kind of hit and miss.
While I believe hockey in Houston would work, it's not guaranteed.
|
I imagine a Dallas vs. Houston rivalry would be a good catalyst. BOT!?
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 02:40 PM
|
#156
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
The Aeros didn't do that great at all. 7th in AHL attendance in their final season, in a city 10x bigger than rest of league. But many say that's because they weren't a big league team, which is understandable. And I'll let you know the next time I run into a Houstonian who remembers Gordie Howe.
I don't know if cosmopolitan is the word I'd use for Houston but it is diverse. Large Latino population which historically is not a strong hockey market.
The difference in minor hockey between Dallas and Houston is immense too. Way more rinks, players and elite programs in Dallas.
So we'll see, It's no slam dunk. The oil connection with Calgary is real but you'd expect more youth hockey as a result.
The biggest thing going for Houston is it's size.
|
7th in a lame duck final season, out of 30 teams. 5th the year before. Ahead of the Marlies, and behind Chicago, Hershey (an institution), and other northern cities.
The arenas and youth hockey thing is a bit of a chicken and egg thing IMO.
I would make a small wager that Houston could be better attended than Seattle.
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 02:45 PM
|
#157
|
First Line Centre
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
7th in a lame duck final season, out of 30 teams. 5th the year before. Ahead of the Marlies, and behind Chicago, Hershey (an institution), and other northern cities.
The arenas and youth hockey thing is a bit of a chicken and egg thing IMO.
I would make a small wager that Houston could be better attended than Seattle.
|
Bring on the pube bet!
__________________
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 02:47 PM
|
#158
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan
Bring on the pube bet!
|
I said small.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to GioforPM For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-20-2021, 04:14 PM
|
#159
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
7th in a lame duck final season, out of 30 teams. 5th the year before. Ahead of the Marlies, and behind Chicago, Hershey (an institution), and other northern cities.
The arenas and youth hockey thing is a bit of a chicken and egg thing IMO.
I would make a small wager that Houston could be better attended than Seattle.
|
FWIW that wasn't really a lame duck season, with move not announced until April (although speculated by some during the season). And if you look at attendance since 2000, it was consistently between 5,000 and 6,500, with one outlier at 7,300.
Houston is not a hockey town. Now could you find enough fans in a city with metro population over 7 million and some western Canadians working here? You'd think so. You'd also expect more than 3 functioning hockey rinks. You shouldn't need an NHL team for that. How many in Seattle?
|
|
|
08-20-2021, 04:48 PM
|
#160
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Things the NHL doesn't really care about:
Even number of teams in divisions and conferences
Reducing travel
Divisional alignments that make geographic sense
History of the sport
Things they do care about:
Maximizing franchise value
Maximizing TV and gate revenue
|
I generally agree with you, but any decision/comparison is definitely multi-factorial. I think it's safe to say the 32 NHL franchises are not currently located for optimal revenue generation...optimal maximum franchise value for certain owners, but not on aggregate.
If the ultimate $$ projections are close between different markets, then the other factors can definitely be a tie-breaker (though really it boils down to right-place, right-time, right-money).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamette
I imagine a Dallas vs. Houston rivalry would be a good catalyst. BOT!?
|
Only took 28 years to happen in Florida...
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:47 AM.
|
|