[News] Jake Virtanen on leave from the Canucks after sexual misconduct allegation

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

One time I travelled to Colombia in my younger years and was robbed at gunpoint. I was somewhere I should not have been at a time where I should not have been. At the end of the day, you should try not to leave your personal security in the hands or decision-making of other people. You'll quickly realize how poor of a judgement other people have.

Traveling in a third world country alone should not be the comparable for visiting someone whom you're currently interested in creating a relationship with. Some of the reaching people are doing to try and make this woman seem like the one at fault is ####ing mind blowing.

One of those few times that me not being a mod makes sense. I would ban each and every one of you and feel zero remorse for doing so. God bless Textcritic and Jiri for having more restraint.

[djsFlames]

Yikes. What kind of composure do some individuals here exhibit when somebody brings up a sensitive topic IRL?

Many points are valid. But the way in which they are communicated though are rather aggressive and not very adult-like.

I just hope that we carry ourselves better than this in these sorts of discussions without the cover of the internet. Because I don't think anybody would listen or be inclined to be receptive if we approached or responded to them this way face to face.

[Blaster86]

Trying to hide behind the shield of common decency after making indecent statements is a crock of ####.

Or here, let me put this in a way you'd understand. You should have known better than to make a statement like "she should have known better".

[djsFlames]

I think it might be time to take a little time out Blaster. At least on this topic.

For your own sake.

I know you mean well. I even agree with what you're trying to communicate but you're just going about it in an unproductive way.

[nik-]

nah, #### it, go in.

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Traveling in a third world country alone should not be the comparable for visiting someone whom you're currently interested in creating a relationship with. Some of the reaching people are doing to try and make this woman seem like the one at fault is ####ing mind blowing.

One of those few times that me not being a mod makes sense. I would ban each and every one of you and feel zero remorse for doing so. God bless Textcritic and Jiri for having more restraint.

I don't see it as victim blaming to encourage people to protect themselves in general. I think you can both believe that the sole fault/responsibility for an assault lies on the perpetrator, while also believing that potential victims can take actions to reduce their likelihood of being attacked.

That being said, I think it's pretty distasteful to be suggesting that a victim could have avoided being harassed or attacked if they were just more diligent, or making it sound like they share responsibility for the incident. It comes across as pretty un-empathetic towards the victims - like saying "well, sucks that your house flooded but you should have know that was a risk buying a place in a 1-in-100 year floodplain". Technically true, but pretty unhelpful after the fact. It's tough to navigate that space between trying to spread helpful advice for people to protect themselves without sounding like you're victim blaming.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I think it might be time to take a little time out Blaster. At least on this topic.

For your own sake.

I know you mean well. I even agree with what you're trying to communicate but you're just going about it in an unproductive way.

You're under the misguided assumption that I am angry or unhinged on this topic. I'm not. I'd be just as dismissive of your opinion if I was sitting across from you. I'd go about this in the exact same way. We're not having a discussion where we are debating opposing positions that both have merit. You're pushing a victim blaming fallacy that's rooted in archaic thinking and misogyny and needs to go away. And it isn't my job to make you see the light by engaging in an argument because that gives the illusion that your position has merit and deserves to be heard. It doesn't, and it shouldn't.

If someone else wants to play nicer, bless their soul. But I don't have time for it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I think it might be time to take a little time out Blaster. At least on this topic.

For your own sake.

I know you mean well. I even agree with what you're trying to communicate but you're just going about it in an unproductive way.

Or you can take a time out and educate yourself on why many people found what you posted to be extremely offensive.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Yikes. What kind of composure do some individuals here exhibit when somebody brings up a sensitive topic IRL?

Many points are valid. But the way in which they are communicated though are rather aggressive and not very adult-like.

I just hope that we carry ourselves better than this in these sorts of discussions without the cover of the internet. Because I don't think anybody would listen or be inclined to be receptive if we approached or responded to them this way face to face.

Amongst the things you have said are this:

"If you're not looking to confuse your signal, maybe refuse to go in there to begin with and insist on a coffee shop? ”

I'm sorry but a statement like that is a BIG part of the problem.
So I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt. But you know what's worse? The attitude that women should adjust their behavior because men won't stop raping them.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I think it might be time to take a little time out Blaster. At least on this topic.

For your own sake.

I know you mean well. I even agree with what you're trying to communicate but you're just going about it in an unproductive way.

#### that. We're fortunately long past the point where someone can say "women need to make better choices about putting themselves in vulnerable situations" and expect not be called out for that disgusting attitude. If you want to continue to be and protect rapist-apologists, you do that, but don't expect people to coddle your archaic views.

Trying to silent people like this won't work anymore.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Traveling in a third world country alone should not be the comparable for visiting someone whom you're currently interested in creating a relationship with. Some of the reaching people are doing to try and make this woman seem like the one at fault is ####ing mind blowing.

One of those few times that me not being a mod makes sense. I would ban each and every one of you and feel zero remorse for doing so. God bless Textcritic and Jiri for having more restraint.

Huh? Did I even bring up the incident in question at all?

I said that my opinion was that I didn't believe in the idealistic thought that you can "teach" our way out of this as I believe there will always be men who take advantage of women. The end. The best we can do as parents is teach our children to be better and provide with them with the knowledge and skills to better protect themselves. You have no idea what my background is or what I have been through so please don't try these games with me on an internet forum.

When something bad happens in the world - do you not use that as a teaching point for your kids? One would assume thats the logical thing to do. I'll even bold the life lesson for you.

At the end of the day, you should try not to leave your personal security in the hands or decision-making of other people. You'll quickly realize how poor of a judgement other people have.

My comment wasn't just related to sexual assaults. This applies to life in general.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Huh? Did I even bring up the incident in question at all?

Why post it then?

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

I said that my opinion was that I didn't believe in the idealistic thought that you can "teach" our way out of this as I believe there will always be men who take advantage of women. The end. The best we can do as parents is teach our children to be better and provide with them with the knowledge and skills to better protect themselves. You have no idea what my background is or what I have been through so please don't try these games with me on an internet forum.

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

I was somewhere I should not have been at a time where I should not have been.

Take your faux out-rage and eat it. That song ain't playing here today.

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

When something bad happens in the world - do you not use that as a teaching point for your kids? One would assume thats the logical thing to do.

Yeah, and my teaching point here would be "If what is alleged to have happened, happened, Jake Virtanen is a bad person. Don't be like Jake." End of memo.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

This thread is still going super-duper-well I see. *sigh*

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Yeah, and my teaching point here would be "If what is alleged to have happened, happened, Jake Virtanen is a bad person. Don't be like Jake." End of memo.

What incredible insight!

So the MMA gyms that are teaching self-defence to women should just shut their doors? Heck - I believe due to the higher instances of sexual assault in Calgary over the past few months, some were even offering their services for free. No, but that's just pointless drivel. Offering women a chance to learn self-defence is apparently victim blaming and defending offenders.

I think the biggest takeaway is that everyone should learn self-defence for their own safety and security because the world is full of creeps.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Amongst the things you have said are this:

"If you're not looking to confuse your signal, maybe refuse to go in there to begin with and insist on a coffee shop? ”

I'm sorry but a statement like that is a BIG part of the problem.
So I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt. But you know what's worse? The attitude that women should adjust their behavior because men won't stop raping them.

I already clarified what was meant by the original post, which was absolutely not the conclusion you've drawn there.

Poorly worded sentence in a much larger post that also included the statement "a crime is a crime", aka: no excuse.

But feel free to continue to single out one sentence typed halfhazardly without the intent of any larger insinuation about such incidents and disregard all elaboration and clarification that it was followed up with or the point of the entire post, which was not to say that adjustment should be made by victims, but that it was unfortunate that she entered the hotel to begin with because that could hurt her chance of a conviction if it comes down to just a conflict of testimonials.

I know what was meant by the post when typed and it was not what you are insinuating, whatsoever.

As one of the handful of responsible posters why are you re-igniting fires well after the fact rather than helping put them out so that we can begin to have reasonable discussions in here? It's totally unnecessary.

[Blaster86]

Why not edit the post to have it say what you were trying to say?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Why not edit the post to have it say what you were trying to say?

Because it was quoted multiple times before I realized that there was massive backlash from that specific part of the post. At that point its useless with how people latch on to things here when they decide they're going to go lynch mob mode.

Don't get me wrong I FULLY understand why and IF that was what I had meant or was even trying to argue, it would be worth opposing.

But it is not. Things get uttered in stupid ways. I should've been more mindful in such a thread on this board but I just did a drive by blurb which was meant as an analysis of "how it might be looked at from the court of public opinion" (which in this day and age is admittedly deeply flawed) and didn't look it over before posting. I do not believe in victim blaming or shaming, as this particular issue hits close to home for me given people I've known that have expressed how such situations made them feel and what they went through. If JV did this then he is fully and entirely at fault for whatever actions he knowingly took.

But I'll admit it's bothersome when you can't have an opportunity to correct yourself here though. Hence why I was really pushing the let's lower the temperature and be civil angle. It's also just constructive and sensible to begin with if we're trying to help enlighten or educate people.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Huh? Did I even bring up the incident in question at all?

I said that my opinion was that I didn't believe in the idealistic thought that you can "teach" our way out of this as I believe there will always be men who take advantage of women. The end. The best we can do as parents is teach our children to be better and provide with them with the knowledge and skills to better protect themselves. You have no idea what my background is or what I have been through so please don't try these games with me on an internet forum.

When something bad happens in the world - do you not use that as a teaching point for your kids? One would assume thats the logical thing to do. I'll even bold the life lesson for you.

At the end of the day, you should try not to leave your personal security in the hands or decision-making of other people. You'll quickly realize how poor of a judgement other people have.

My comment wasn't just related to sexual assaults. This applies to life in general.

Well put.

There's a huge difference between acknowledging dangers in the world and trying to avoid them vs victim blaming.
Only in the simple world of internet forums are those 2 things the same.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

But I'll admit it's bothersome when you can't have an opportunity to correct yourself here though. Hence why I was really pushing the let's lower the temperature and be civil angle. It's also just constructive and sensible to begin with if we're trying to help enlighten or educate people.

When people called you out for that point instead of providing clarification and apologizing for your apparent wording gaffe you instead said they were "far too easily triggered." Then you, admittedly in a nice way, told someone to shut up and stop posting when they disagreed with you. I don't get why you think you're the one who gets to decide what is civil and constructive.

[Dajazz]

“Sorry, I made made a mistake, of course I think that .... “ would have gone a long way.

Humility died with the internet.