Brad Treliving Trade History

[dino7c]

Elliott was also pretty good for the Flames until the epic choke job in the playoffs

pretty tough to bring him back after that though

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I didn't know that Stone was unlikely to sign in Calgary at a reasonable amount. If that's the case, I don't consider it a failure by Treliving.
Rather, I just hate the Vegas Golden Knights even more.

I still don't how he wasted picks on Gustafsson and Forbort when the team was obviously not a contender. Giving a 3rd round pick for a player who is now frequently a healthy scratch (Gustafsson) seems like a stretch. And I thought Gustafsson was much better than Forbort.
He should have learned his lesson from the Fantenberg trade.

The Flames have a long history of doing moves like this.
Feaster's first trade was the acquisition of Modin for a 7th round pick (2011).
That 7th round pick is now Colin Blackwell who has 10 points in 22 games for the Rangers.
These late picks can add up. Some of them end up being players.

I don’t understand why people get bent out of shape about this. When he acquired these two players, Giordano and Hamonic were injured and the Flames wanted to secure their playoff spot. It seems eminently clear the mandate from ownership is to make the playoffs. Treliving did what he felt he had to do to enhance his odds of doing so.

Regardless, if you’re going to complain about that, at least acknowledge the 3rd he got in the Neal trade, the two thirds he got at the draft and the fourth for Frolik.

Trading mid-round picks is something every single GM in the league does. If you think it’s just Treliving who does this, you’re not paying attention.

[dino7c]

Vancouver and Edmonton made much worse deadline deals last year...and they won the same number of Stanley Cups as Calgary.

Really every team but one should be sellers at the deadline...tough part is we don't know who that one is

[1qqaaz]

It seems eminently clear the mandate from ownership is to make the playoffs.

I would argue that from a long term perspective, the team is more likely to make the playoffs more often if they actually use picks and develop prospects. In fact, this is more likely to make them contenders. It's just better asset management.

acknowledge the 3rd he got in the Neal trade, the two thirds he got at the draft and the fourth for Frolik

The Frolik trade was good. People were so interested in whether the Flames could get the 3rd from the Neal trade. Yet they don't care about the pick that was wasted on Gustaffson. Either way, 3rds are valuable. Fox, a 3rd round pick, has more points this year than anyone the Flames have drafted in the past decade. I'll give credit to them for making a great pick there.
Other the other side, I think Jake Boltmann was a complete waste of a pick, and the second trade down may not have been worth it. Washington ended up picking Hendrix Lapierre, and he's looking very good. Nothing against Zary though. The first trade down was good.

Trading mid-round picks is something every single GM in the league does. If you think it’s just Treliving who does this, you’re not paying attention.

I'll agree with the premise, but that doesn't make it excusable. Like I said, these picks add up.
I think the Flames should take advantage of their good drafting and development in the later rounds.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by chedder

So from this one and the Khadri non trade it seems Brad is ok at dealing with the other gm but not so good at gauging the player interest in coming to Calgary.

I don't get it. How can you say you had a deal except the player with the ntc said no? That's not a deal. Or in Stone's case that the player didn't want to sign a long term deal here over Vegas. Oh we totally could have signed Stone except he didn't want to play here and has the final say.

I'm sick of all these swing and a miss moves.

Well tampering rules don’t allow you to talk to the player until you have a agreement with the other teams GM so not really sure what he’s supposed to do in either scenario.

[Classic_Sniper]

Too much microscopic analysis going on here IMO. To put it more simply, did Treliving in his 7 years take this team to the next level? No, he didn’t. They’re the same bubble playoff team that they were 7 years ago and the team has shown no signs of getting better. If we continue to trudge forward along with the same vision, same plan, we’ll end up finishing just outside of the playoffs or be ousted in 5 or 6 of the first round.

I think this fanbase has witnessed so much mediocrity that our standards have hit rock bottom. No more average, let’s be better and demand more then just a playoff appearance or a first round playoff series win. If we’re collectively just going to ok with mediocrity every year then we don’t deserve the Cup.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I would argue that from a long term perspective, the team is more likely to make the playoffs more often if they actually use picks and develop prospects. In fact, this is more likely to make them contenders. It's just better asset management.


The Frolik trade was good. People were so interested in whether the Flames could get the 3rd from the Neal trade. Yet they don't care about the pick that was wasted on Gustaffson. Either way, 3rds are valuable. Fox, a 3rd round pick, has more points this year than anyone the Flames have drafted in the past decade. I'll give credit to them for making a great pick there.
Other the other side, I think Jake Boltmann was a complete waste of a pick, and the second trade down may not have been worth it. Washington ended up picking Hendrix Lapierre, and he's looking very good. Nothing against Zary though. The first trade down was good.


I'll agree with the premise, but that doesn't make it excusable. Like I said, these picks add up.
I think the Flames should take advantage of their good drafting and development in the later rounds.

Again, these sorts of arguments/complaints can be made with every single GM in the league. ‘X’ GM should have drafted ‘X’ player in the ‘X’th round. This isn’t directed at you per say (not looking to pick a fight, just making my point), but it’s a lame argument that is made all too frequently.

Although, on one hand you’re saying the Flames have been good at drafting and developing, on the other you’re critical of the Boltman pick. If the expectation is that you’re going to end up with an Adam Fox or a Brayden Point every year or so, that’s not a fair or accurate expectation.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Why is Jake Boltmann a wasted pick?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Why is Jake Boltmann a wasted pick?

Good question. A little presumptive to be making this judgment I would think.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Too much microscopic analysis going on here IMO. To put it more simply, did Treliving in his 7 years take this team to the next level? No, he didn’t. They’re the same bubble playoff team that they were 7 years ago and the team has shown no signs of getting better. If we continue to trudge forward along with the same vision, same plan, we’ll end up finishing just outside of the playoffs or be ousted in 5 or 6 of the first round.

I think this fanbase has witnessed so much mediocrity that our standards have hit rock bottom. No more average, let’s be better and demand more then just a playoff appearance or a first round playoff series win. If we’re collectively just going to ok with mediocrity every year then we don’t deserve the Cup.

The Flames during Brad's 7 seasons have accumulated the 17th highest total number of points in the NHL. I should note that the Flyers, Habs and Leafs are nipping at our heels so we could drop down to 20th.

In the 7 seasons before Brad became the Flames GM, the Flames had the 17th highest total number of points in the NHL.

Brad is clearly a big upgrade on what we had before in terms of on-ice performance.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames during Brad's 7 seasons have accumulated the 17th highest total number of points in the NHL. I should note that the Flyers, Habs and Leafs are nipping at our heels so we could drop down to 20th.

In the 7 seasons before Brad became the Flames GM, the Flames had the 17th highest total number of points in the NHL.

Brad is clearly a big upgrade on what we had before in terms of on-ice performance.

We cannot win the Stanley Cup, but we are a legendary dynasty in the Parity Cup.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Good question. A little presumptive to be making this judgment I would think.

I mean he is a defenseman but the 0 points in 19 games in the NCAA doesn't scream potential lol.

[united]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames during Brad's 7 seasons have accumulated the 17th highest total number of points in the NHL. I should note that the Flyers, Habs and Leafs are nipping at our heels so we could drop down to 20th.

In the 7 seasons before Brad became the Flames GM, the Flames had the 17th highest total number of points in the NHL.

Brad is clearly a big upgrade on what we had before in terms of on-ice performance.

Where do the Flames rank over those periods in total player spend (roster + buyouts)? Or maybe I don’t want to know the answer.

[united]

All right because I like torturing myself with this team, I took data from Cap Friendly which only goes back to the 2015-16 season, and excluded Vegas.

During that time, not including this season to date (which will only make things worse), the Flames rank:

10th in cap-dollars spent (high to low)
18th in points earned (high to low)
22nd in dollars-per-point (most efficient to least)

Now, you expect contending teams to spend more than rebuilding teams so here are the 9 teams who spent more cap-dollars than the Flames over that period:

1. Detroit! (0 series wins, 1 playoffs appearance. Yikes!)
2. Pittsburgh (2 Stanley Cups, 9 series wins, 4 playoffs appearances)
3. Toronto (0 series wins, 3 playoffs appearances)
4. St. Louis (1 Stanley Cup, 7 series wins, 4 playoffs appearances)
5. Washington (1 Stanley Cup, 6 series wins, 5 playoffs appearances)
6. Tampa Bay (1 Stanley Cup, 8 series wins, 4 playoffs appearances)
7. Chicago (0 series wins, 3 playoffs appearances)
8. Dallas (5 series wins, 3 playoffs appearances)
9. San Jose (6 series wins, 4 playoffs appearances)
10. Calgary (0 series wins, 3 playoffs appearances)

4/9 teams who have spent more than the Flames won Stanley Cups, and 6/9 have won at least 5 rounds. Chicago we can excuse for obvious reasons, leaving Calgary on par with Toronto and well ahead of Detroit. Also, of the 20 teams who have spent less than the Flames, 13 have won more playoffs series. Phrased another way, just 3/29 teams have spent more than the Flames while also failing to reach the second round of the playoffs and 1 of those teams is the Blackhawks who won 3 Stanley Cups the previous 6 seasons in exchange for high spend.


Three notable teams who spent fewer cap-dollars than the Flames over that period:

Boston (5 series wins, 4 playoffs appearances)
Nashville (5 series wins, 4 playoffs appearances)
NYI (5 series wins, 3 playoffs appearances)


And because efficiency is huge in a cap World, here is how the five most efficient teams in dollars-per-point compare to the Flames - and keep in mind this is over five seasons:

1. Carolina has earned 5 fewer points but spent $54.3 million fewer dollars, or 1 less point per season for $10.9 million per season in cap space. The efficiency kings and it's not close. Would love to see them rewarded. Imagine your boss asking you why you spent $54 million dollars more than a competitor for the same product!
2. Washington has earned 101 more points at a cost of $4.1 million more dollars, or 20 more points per season at a cost of $820 thousand in cap spend.
3. Tampa Bay has earned 88 more points at a cost of $2.5 million more dollars, or 18 more points per season at a cost of $500 thousand in cap spend (lower than league minimum).
4. Nashville has earned 49 more points but spent $15.8 million fewer dollars, or 10 more points per season for $3.2 million in cap space.
5. Boston has earned 71 more points but spent $2.3 million fewer dollars, or 14 more points per season for $460 thousand in cap space.


The Wizard is doing a pretty good job and just needs more time.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Wow excellent research thanks for posting that.

Clean house!

[GG51]

Just saw a Leafs twitter, Brodie is the first pair D and on first PP unit. How much to pay for such a D? think about what Flames spent on Dougie and Hamonic. Let TJ walk is a disaster, and downgraded this team several levels. Based the first pair D are gone with TJ left and Gio older not a first D anymore.

Just wondering are Flames deeper than other teams won far more games than us? TJ never got in the first PP unit.

Also this forum is ridiculous somehow. Think what Brodie got every night from this forum. this team is worse systematically, while Mony Jonny got the blame every thread. They should still be your best players, but how could it work with a 4th line plug on the right wing most nights? Other teams could just freeze these two, and let the 3rd guy fly, the play will dead on his stick anyway

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GG51

Just saw a Leafs twitter, Brodie is the first pair D and on first PP unit. How much to pay for such a D? think about what Flames spent on Dougie and Hamonic. Let TJ walk is a disaster, and downgraded this team several levels. Based the first pair D are gone with TJ left and Gio older not a first D anymore.

Just wondering are Flames deeper than other teams won far more games than us? TJ never got in the first PP unit.

Also this forum is ridiculous somehow. Think what Brodie got every night from this forum. this team is worse systematically, while Mony Jonny got the blame every thread. They should still be your best players, but how could it work with a 4th line plug on the right wing most nights? Other teams could just freeze these two, and let the 3rd guy fly, the play will dead on his stick anyway

I like Brodie but he’s on TO’s PP by default. They have no better option. Calgary did, for pretty much all of his tenure here.

[Ducay]

Its less about the % of the trades he's done, and more so about the ones he hasn't. He has failed to put together a high quality team and our prospect drawer is pretty devoid of high level talent.

Unless something major happens or someone turns into a star overnight, we've got like 4+ more years of this same mediocre hockey on the horizon.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Its less about the % of the trades he's done, and more so about the ones he hasn't. He has failed to put together a high quality team and our prospect drawer is pretty devoid of high level talent.

Unless something major happens or someone turns into a star overnight, we've got like 4+ more years of this same mediocre hockey on the horizon.

It comes down to the same thing. He can’t do a decent trade because he doesn’t have big assets to use. He was saddled with mediocre assets and mediocre draft positions. Never drafted top 5, never had a pick higher than mid to low frost to trade except for the Tkachuk draft, and that would have been nuts. So he’s had to go with UFAs and that almost never works out (mind you, his last 2 big UFAs are good gets).

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It comes down to the same thing. He can’t do a decent trade because he doesn’t have big assets to use. He was saddled with mediocre assets and mediocre draft positions. Never drafted top 5, never had a pick higher than mid to low frost to trade except for the Tkachuk draft, and that would have been nuts. So he’s had to go with UFAs and that almost never works out (mind you, his last 2 big UFAs are good gets).

“Saddled”. He has been GM for seven years, you are taking the Treliving apologism to new heights IMO.

It’s funny if his recent UFA signings were playing poorly after 39 games we’d be saying far too early to judge.But Tanev is earning his salary so far, no arguments here.

We can agree or disagree on how good a job the GM has done, but I don’t get how he escapes accountability.