Practice Notes March 9 - Surly Rancher 2.0

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think Gio's legs are actually improving from the start of the season.

Young and fresh.

[corporatejay]

I'd be shocked if most posters on this board could tell you what system they actually play and what style they're expected adapt for that system.

The flames can't get to the net, they don't penetrate the high scoring areas, take shots from bad areas that often get blocked and make poor turnovers. Whether that's a poor system preventing them from correcting it or the style of play I don't know. Fortunately I'm not being paid to fix it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

To be fair though it would be difficult for them to have gotten any worse

Yeah, what could have happened? He's only tied for the 6th oldest active skater in the league. And has more points than 5 of the guys older than him, the only one with more being Spezza. He's the highest scoring D man over 35.

PPG tied for 5th on the team with Mangiapane, second for D (by a whisker behind Rasmus). Still the highest TOI on the team at age 36.

Give the man some respect.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Young and fresh.

I'd like to see this make a comeback for young Gio.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I'd be shocked if most posters on this board could tell you what system they actually play and what style they're expected adapt for that system.

The flames can't get to the net, they don't penetrate the high scoring areas, take shots from bad areas that often get blocked and make poor turnovers. Whether that's a poor system preventing them from correcting it or the style of play I don't know. Fortunately I'm not being paid to fix it.

They sure think they can. But you are correct. You can't tell if they are playing a bad "system", not executing properly, or both. I find it hard to believe that any system coaches only perimeter play, or getting blue line turnovers, though.

Frankly, I think systems are best for D, and for breakouts (and even then I think there should be 3-4 options to defeat an opposing strategy). In the offensive zone, you take what you can, play hard and win pucks, get the pucks to the net using the best skill and drive you can. People are guilty of thinking systems and line combos mostly with respect to offence, and I am willing to bet coaches put lines together and work on systems mainly for their own side of the centre line.

[Gaskal]

Without a proper training camp and preseason older vets like Gio need time to really get back up to that midseason shape.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Without a proper training camp and preseason older vets like Gio need time to really get back up to that midseason shape.

Gio is a tremendous off season worker, but yeah, there was little time and/or opportunity. I imagine he hit the weights all offseason, but it's not the same as game shape.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No question. I agree 100%. And I think that was a big problem with Ward.

Sutter is great with adjustments.

Also, even though Sutter said the system is fine, I fully expect that we will see some changes. For instance, I expect that they will look to move the puck out of their zone, and up ice, much quicker.

Sutter is all about pressure. That's what I like most about his style.

[2ArmBands]

This teams issue all year has been engagement and compete level. I think that first and foremost has to be dealt with before diving into the Xs and Os.

Luckily for the Flames they have found one of the best guys in the game to fix this. I think the change in this team will be drastic.

[djsFlames]

The 960 guys also pointed out that beyond the typical "big and tough" labels people gave the kings, the thing that really made them hard to play against was they were a very high possession team and you had to work to get your possession time and do something with it against their aggressive defence. Like Steinberg and the guys said, if the team can become a high possession group like the kings were and have the puck as often as they did in games, it will be great hockey to watch.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

People put way too much emphasis on systems.

Darryl Sutter is not effective everywhere he goes because of a system.

Systems are what coaches who don’t know what they’re doing use to confuse the public into thinking they’re up to the job.

See Gulutzan, Glen.

This. A good coach needs to be able to navigate people as much as they need to have knowledge of the game.

Ward was a very good tactical coach. I liked his power play set up and if the Flames played correctly, this system isn't bad. It was all execution and lack therein. Sutter thankfully is good at both and should be a huge boon to this team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think this misses one aspect of coaching - maybe the most important one: getting the players to play the right way, and to the best of their abilities, both individually, and as a team.

Of course Ward didn't ask them to play slow or to turn pucks over, but it IS the coach's job to get his team playing well.

The Flames have been playing slow, they have been mistake-riddled, they have been soft, they look out of shape, and they have been mentally weak. And it is the coach's job to ensure that none of those things are happening.

They are not the most talented team in the league, nor are they the toughest - mentally or otherwise. But I think it is pretty safe to say that they should be a lot better on all of these fronts than they have been.

Actually they've been on then off, then on then off.

Saturday against Ottawa ... fast.
Monday against Ottawa ... fast in the first flat after that.
Thursday against Ottawa ... fast to start, mostly fast through the game.
Saturday against Edmonton ... fast in the first, then lost it (tired)?
Sunday against Ottawa ... odd game, territorial with no execution. They seemed fast.

If Sutter can keep them

a) on their A game more often and
b) improve their off game they'll be much better

Have never debated that Sutter isn't an upgrade, but Ward didn't coach them not to be fast. They just kept losing the program.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Actually they've been on then off, then on then off.

Saturday against Ottawa ... fast.
Monday against Ottawa ... fast in the first flat after that.
Thursday against Ottawa ... fast to start, mostly fast through the game.
Saturday against Edmonton ... fast in the first, then lost it (tired)?
Sunday against Ottawa ... odd game, territorial with no execution. They seemed fast.

If Sutter can keep them

a) on their A game more often and
b) improve their off game they'll be much better

Have never debated that Sutter isn't an upgrade, but Ward didn't coach them not to be fast. They just kept losing the program.

Seems to me like in every game they quit being fast it's because they got scored on despite a decent start - either they took a penalty and got scored on or the got scored on against the flow of play, but when that happens to this team, the air goes out of them.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Actually they've been on then off, then on then off.

Saturday against Ottawa ... fast.
Monday against Ottawa ... fast in the first flat after that.
Thursday against Ottawa ... fast to start, mostly fast through the game.
Saturday against Edmonton ... fast in the first, then lost it (tired)?
Sunday against Ottawa ... odd game, territorial with no execution. They seemed fast.

If Sutter can keep them

a) on their A game more often and
b) improve their off game they'll be much better

Have never debated that Sutter isn't an upgrade, but Ward didn't coach them not to be fast. They just kept losing the program.

He didn't coach them not to be fast, but they sure played a slow game under his watch.

And I don't agree with your fast and slow assessment above. I would change all the 'fasts' to 'competed'. But even when they were competing, they were still circling back, still regrouping in the defensive and neutral zones. They were playing with more energy, but still not playing a fast game, IMO.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Seems to me like in every game they quit being fast it's because they got scored on despite a decent start - either they took a penalty and got scored on or the got scored on against the flow of play, but when that happens to this team, the air goes out of them.

Which is also part of the coach's job.

Shouldn't be but it is.

Mentally fragile group since the Avalanche put them on a split and turned them over coals for 5 games.

Ward inherited that mess and couldn't fortify them on his own.

Sutter was literally the leadership of the 2004 team. They were never the same when he stepped aside. If that's still the case, then they have a shot of being better at handling adversity.

There really isn't a better coach out there for what they need. Still shocked they went out and did it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Which is also part of the coach's job.

Shouldn't be but it is.

Mentally fragile group since the Avalanche put them on a split and turned them over coals for 5 games.

Ward inherited that mess and couldn't fortify them on his own.

Sutter was literally the leadership of the 2004 team. They were never the same when he stepped aside. If that's still the case, then they have a shot of being better at handling adversity.

There really isn't a better coach out there for what they need. Still shocked they went out and did it.

Fragile and also a bit complacent. All those Ottawa losses the Flames score to make it 2-1 and then they sit back and think "OK, this is easy - we can relax". And then they get scored upon. I suppose last game - baby steps - they recovered from that.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Actually they've been on then off, then on then off.

Saturday against Ottawa ... fast.
Monday against Ottawa ... fast in the first flat after that.
Thursday against Ottawa ... fast to start, mostly fast through the game.
Saturday against Edmonton ... fast in the first, then lost it (tired)?
Sunday against Ottawa ... odd game, territorial with no execution. They seemed fast.

If Sutter can keep them

a) on their A game more often and
b) improve their off game they'll be much better

Have never debated that Sutter isn't an upgrade, but Ward didn't coach them not to be fast. They just kept losing the program.

I don't think he purposefully coached them to be slow, but I am not sure that he actually coached them to be fast either, and I am making the assumptions on two things that I regularly saw:


1) Flames would exit the zone slowly all too often. I didn't sense that Ward was telling them to move the puck quicker. He seemed to be fine on those all too common occurrences. Maybe I am being a bit unfair here, and he did continually try to make them exit the zone at speed, but it didn't appear to me that he did based on how often the players were doing so, and his demeanour on the bench at times as the camera panned.


2) The comment today about how fast-paced practice was. Ward apparently wasn't having fast practices. I can assume speed wasn't something he was coaching for if they never practiced with that speed. Maybe he didn't want slow, but since he never practiced at game-speed, one could then assume he wasn't coaching the Flames to actually be fast either.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I'd be shocked if most posters on this board could tell you what system they actually play and what style they're expected adapt for that system.

The flames can't get to the net, they don't penetrate the high scoring areas, take shots from bad areas that often get blocked and make poor turnovers. Whether that's a poor system preventing them from correcting it or the style of play I don't know. Fortunately I'm not being paid to fix it.

I'm always baffled by comments like this.

There are people on this board - and in any large group of fans - that range from casual fans and noobies, to people that have played and coached at very high levels - and even the highest levels.

If you aren't in the room seeing what they are preaching, you can't know what the systems are. But we can all watch and observe what they are doing. And things that are being repeated regularly are probably part of the program.

Does everyone interpret what they see correctly and astutely? Of course not. Does that make everyone wrong? Of course not. People are going to have different opinions about it, just as they have different opinions about players. Or the refs. But just because opinions vary, that doesn't make them all wrong.

It's a discussion board.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I'd be shocked if most posters on this board could tell you what system they actually play and what style they're expected adapt for that system.

The flames can't get to the net, they don't penetrate the high scoring areas, take shots from bad areas that often get blocked and make poor turnovers. Whether that's a poor system preventing them from correcting it or the style of play I don't know. Fortunately I'm not being paid to fix it.

It’s hockey.

On your side of centre, you want to force the puck to the outside.

On their side of centre, you push it to the middle.

Decide how you want to achieve that, but it doesn’t need to be overthought.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Actually they've been on then off, then on then off.

Saturday against Ottawa ... fast.
Monday against Ottawa ... fast in the first flat after that.
Thursday against Ottawa ... fast to start, mostly fast through the game.
Saturday against Edmonton ... fast in the first, then lost it (tired)?
Sunday against Ottawa ... odd game, territorial with no execution. They seemed fast.

If Sutter can keep them

a) on their A game more often and
b) improve their off game they'll be much better

Have never debated that Sutter isn't an upgrade, but Ward didn't coach them not to be fast. They just kept losing the program.

We don't mention it enough but coaching is not only done behind the bench. Judging by what Tanev said today, Ward absolutely coached them to play slow and sloppy. If today's practice, which wasn't long or that hard was the best he's had here, it's clear they were not pepared to play. Explains the inconsistencies.