Poll Request: Retool or Rebuild?

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

Gaudreau or Monahan - who showed up the least? Tough call on that one.

Monahan by a country mile. Only thing I remember him doing is skating to the the red line and shooting it in.

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[Azure]

I think the biggest reason Treliving would go is because of the Peters hiring.

I feel the team is still suffering from that.

Otherwise not sure what to say or do. To go from dominating in the first 10 min to completely falling apart after the opposing team scores a goal or two.

Speaks of a lack of leadership, experience, composure, etc.

[Vinny01]

If they fire Treliving are you all happy with one of Conroy, Pascall, or Maloney taking over? Those are the only 3 Guys I can see getting the job if it comes to that. Those guys know the organization and it works out to a slight raise instead of paying a new guy a couple million to come in.

Conroy has been in a management role since 2011 so he could be getting close to being ready? I want to give Treliving one more go but if not then I expect an internal promotion which would allow for big roster changes as well.

If they are going to raise my season ticket prices by 10-20% in 4 years when the new barn opens they better have a team worth watching on the ice.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If they fire Treliving are you all happy with one of Conroy, Pascall, or Maloney taking over? Those are the only 3 Guys I can see getting the job if it comes to that. Those guys know the organization and it works out to a slight raise instead of paying a new guy a couple million to come in.

Conroy has been in a management role since 2011 so he could be getting close to being ready? I want to give Treliving one more go but if not then I expect an internal promotion which would allow for big roster changes as well.

If they are going to raise my season ticket prices by 10-20% in 4 years when the new barn opens they better have a team worth watching on the ice.

I’d sooner dump Tree and promote Conroy than let Pascall or Maloney anywhere near that role.

It’s time to rebuild this team so that they’re ready to start competing in the new arena.

[Canadianman]

Flames will never go anywhere with Gaudreau on the team.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This is Brad Treliving's team. He's had three coaches and half a decade to shape the roster. You can make a very good case he should be fired but I don't think that happens because he has multiple years left on his deal. I don't see a scenario where he gets to perform another rebuild so I imagine the plan is to retool via trades and free agency. The team will look different next year and maybe even worse on paper but it's all going to come down to the next head coach they hire. If Brad hires another dud you can stick a fork in the this team as things will snowball into a scorched earth rebuild. If he hires a proven head coach that's won a lot of games then it is possible to at least move the needle forward a bit. Plenty of question marks;

-No head coach. Ward did well filling in but he's not the solution. This is pretty scary because Treliving doesn't seem to have a grip on what to look for in head coaches.
-No starting goaltender whatsoever. Rittich at this point is an average backup goaltender and Talbot isn't the solution.
-No elite defenseman on the roster. Gio's no longer that guy and will likely regress more next season.
-No 1st line center. I don't care what anyone says Monahan is not a 1st line center on a cup contending team. We have ample evidence that shows that this Flames team is that absolute ceiling for a team that's top center is Sean Monahan.
-No blue chip prospects in the organization. Not a drafting issue and more that it's the price paid for too many picks traded.

While it may look like a mess there's talent on the roster to work with but it's going to require some shrewd decision making for a retool to work. Need to nail the head coach hire. Gaudreau should fetch a solid return of player/prospect/draft pick and they will have some cap space to replace at least Brodie but I don't know what to do with the goaltender and center position. You can't trade Monahan because there's no succession plan within the organization and no team is going to trade their 1st line center to the Flames. They will have to stick with him and go after a guy like Hall that can hopefully carry him like Gaudreau did. Do they go after Lehner or trade for a Matt Murray type of reclamation project? Lots of questions and lots of options out there. I think a GM could successfully retool but there won't be much margin for error.

4 coaches. (probably 5) But who's counting?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think the biggest reason Treliving would go is because of the Peters hiring.

I feel the team is still suffering from that.

Otherwise not sure what to say or do. To go from dominating in the first 10 min to completely falling apart after the opposing team scores a goal or two.

Speaks of a lack of leadership, experience, composure, etc.

Not just the Peter's hiring, but the Gulutzan hiring as well. Feaster left him with a coach who went on to win the Jack Adams trophy with the team, and had the team playing exciting and competitive hockey that took them to the second round. Tre fired that guy and replaced him with a disastrous coach that sapped the life from the team. Then he replaced the Gulutzan disaster with another version of the same type of coach.

The last time I remember Johnny and Monahan being players with the type of competitive drive that could be counted on was under Hartley, the Feaster-hired Jack Adam's winner that Tre fired. I can't help but wonder how much the Gulutzan and Peters hirings have contributed to Johnny and Monahan becoming what they are now.

I don't have a problem with Ward, really. The guy has stepped in as an interim coach and done a pretty good job with the team under these circumstances. The team definitely played better in these playoffs than they did last year. But, I still hope they hire someone like Gallant or Boudreau that can bring the competitive drive back to this team.

If the team gets a coach like that and can replace Monahan with a real first line C that can be a driving force when the level of competition intensifies, I think they could still be a real threat in the playoffs. I don't have much confidence in Tre making the beat coaching hire though.

[J pold]

Rebuild or retool doesn't really matter if Treliving is overseeing either. This board loves to be an apologist for the GM but the reality is that his decision making and moves are the core of this teams consistent underwhelming performances and 1st round exits.

[Strange Brew]

The way this team is constructed it’s like plugging fingers in a dyke. Last night goaltending and coaching sprung a leak.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I struggle to understand where the line is between a re-build and re-tool. But in my mind it is clear that you have to conclude that this re-build failed. And it largely failed because it's success hinged on progression of the core. And too many players failed to take another step and even regressed: Johnny, Monahan, Sam, Rittich, Jankowski, etc. You needed some of that group to find another level, and they didn't.
As others have stated, the series win over Vancouver, probably ended up being more of a curse as it motivated the franchise to try and open their contention window too early.

I would approach the off-season by trading Johnny and Monahan and seeing what type of returns you get. If it's picks then you are in a re-build. If there are roster players involved maybe it's a re-tool.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Canadianman

Flames will never go anywhere with Gaudreau on the team.

Not really true. Flames will never go anywhere with Gaudreau being your best forward I think is more accurate. If you added Gaudreau to the Blues they would get better, not worse. We don't have the elite talent or incredible depth. Period. Yes coaching may be an issue, and I don't doubt the right coach could get more out of this group. You either need some elite talent (Pittsburgh model) or amazing depth (Blues; Knights; Kings(circa 2011/2012)). We don't have it.

We looked like we were getting there at one point. Had Bennett panned out as a consistent top 6 player. Had the acquisition of Fleury or Bishop gone through. I also think we sped up the rebuild after a fluke season in 2015 - that really hurt us. I think we needed one more top 5 pick for this rebuild... it didn't happen, and now I'm not sure how you get out of it without a complete rebuild... I voted retool, but I am beginning to think rebuild might be the answer here. Keep Tkachuk, Dube, Mangiapane, Bennett, Andersson, Valimaki, Hanifin and go from there. Hope and pray you get a 1C in the draft. Oh, and we should hire one of Laviolette or Gallant.

[Toonage]

Rebuild? You likely lose Tkachuk or possibly waste his prime years.

If you're ok with that, go for it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I struggle to understand where the line is between a re-build and re-tool. But in my mind it is clear that you have to conclude that this re-build failed. And it largely failed because it's success hinged on progression of the core. And too many players failed to take another step and even regressed: Johnny, Monahan, Sam, Rittich, Jankowski, etc. You needed some of that group to find another level, and they didn't.
As others have stated, the series win over Vancouver, probably ended up being more of a curse as it motivated the franchise to try and open their contention window too early.

I would approach the off-season by trading Johnny and Monahan and seeing what type of returns you get. If it's picks then you are in a re-build. If there are roster players involved maybe it's a re-tool.

What Ottawa, Detroit and Los Angeles are doing is a rebuild.

What the Flames have been doing for the last 13 years is re-tooling. The Rebuild Failed because they never actually did one, they kept undercutting future teams by trading away futures to get marginal short term improvement.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Rebuild? You likely lose Tkachuk or possibly waste his prime years.

If you're ok with that, go for it.

You might lose Tkachuk anyways, believe it or not he's another American flight risk and in two years time he's either getting a huge contract at $9 million AAV or more or taking a one year QO of $9 million and then going UFA in the following off season.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather keep Chucky, but if you rebuild and go scorched earth, he brings back the biggest return of futures out of anybody on the entire team.

[calgarygeologist]

Blow it up. Start with Treliving and bring in a GM with vision. Tell that new GM he has full authority to move pieces as necessary including the coach, Johnny, Monahan and one of the goalies.

I'm not sure what Holtby's situation it like in Washington but they should try to make a move on him. He is a Western Canada boy so maybe he wouldn't mind coming up here.

[bdubbs]

Rebuild. Deal whoever you can that will give you a shot to get some elite talent at positions of weakness (flames have a lot), keep anyone who is young enough that hasn't been ruined by the mediocrity of the culture here.

[Hemi-Cuda]

We sat through 7 years of retooling from '06 to '12 before ownership finally admitted that a rebuild was needed. A retool only works when you have a solid core to work with, Calgary doesn't have that, and refusing to admit that just means season after season of a playoff bubble team that isn't good enough to win but not bad enough to get valuable draft picks. Suck it up, have a fire sale at the draft and next trade deadline, and then start building a complete team through the draft

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I struggle to understand where the line is between a re-build and re-tool. But in my mind it is clear that you have to conclude that this re-build failed. And it largely failed because it's success hinged on progression of the core. And too many players failed to take another step and even regressed: Johnny, Monahan, Sam, Rittich, Jankowski, etc. You needed some of that group to find another level, and they didn't.
As others have stated, the series win over Vancouver, probably ended up being more of a curse as it motivated the franchise to try and open their contention window too early.

I would approach the off-season by trading Johnny and Monahan and seeing what type of returns you get. If it's picks then you are in a re-build. If there are roster players involved maybe it's a re-tool.

To me the line is drawn at Monahan. If you trade Monahan, it’s a rebuild because your centre depth is the worst in the league without him. Only way to fix that is through the draft.

I struggle to see this team trading Monahan (and Gaudreau) though. This organization does nothing proactive.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

You might lose Tkachuk anyways, believe it or not he's another American flight risk and in two years time he's either getting a huge contract at $9 million AAV or more or taking a one year QO of $9 million and then going UFA in the following off season.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather keep Chucky, but if you rebuild and go scorched earth, he brings back the biggest return of futures out of anybody on the entire team.

Thats fair, I get that. So to my original point, you rebuild then. Very disappointing to watch a player like that move before he even gets started here but like you say, he may command too much when a retool has money being spent around him to compete, and his price tag would be too high for a rebuilding team.

[Flash Walken]

You could have kept Tkachuk and rebuilt the roster around him if he had been signed to term.