WCQF: Vegas Golden Knights (1) vs Chicago Blackhawks (8) (Vegas wins 4-1)

[Dragomir]

I also hate the Knights, can’t wait for their roster to age out and fall in the standings.

[WhiteTiger]

Apparently, this is now a soccer game! ;D

[thefoss1957]

My blood pressure pills are failing as the 'Hawks are just holding off the onslaught. Crow has been amazing.

[dino7c]

Crawford stands on his head and wins a game...good for him for not quitting

[thefoss1957]

DeBrincat was an unusual choice to be out there to protect a lead. I know he has been snakebitten offensively, but, he is not noted to be a great DEFENSIVE player, nursing a one goal lead.

[Tsawwassen]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

Tsawwassen...I am concerned about post Covid stamina in the guy. If you go with a worn out Crawford in game 3, and lose, then you may be looking at having to win 4 in a row. It is a hard choice, and in discussions at my home forum (Blackhawkzone, formerly Wirtzsucks) they agree with you. But, I see Crow's game seemingly deteriorating each game. And I think it is time to call in the relief, for at least one game.

Now, 'Hawk fans have been dissatisfied with Bowman's roster building for some time. He did win with the core built by his predecessor, but has struggled with bad contracts and has failed to address a couple areas, namely Defense behind Keith/Seabrook over the past 5 years, #2 Center until the emergence of a 19yo Dach, and a forever rotating Wing to match with Toews/Saad, that wasn't named Kane, and until an out of the blue, Kubalik, he was using washed up bums for years, Now he has whiffed on Goaltending depth, finally getting Lehner, then dumping Lehner. Subban, Delia, or any of the AHL level guys looks inadequate. (and Scott Foster is still an accountant!).

Once again, very well explained. The Bhawks as you mentioned don't have much depth in the goalie department. Bowman better address that in the off season. Delia seems to be the best that is available on the farm. Back to Crawford, he was simply incredible in game 4. It's a good thing that Colliton didn't roll the dice. Like you said, the coach may run Crawford into the ground/ice, but, Crawford is the best/only choice. This could be a repeat of Crawford and the Bhawks from 9 years ago when they were down 3-0 to the Canucks and forced game 7 only to lose in OT. Does Crawford have the endurance to do it again? I like the Scott Foster comment.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I can’t stand the bandwagon Knights fans.

fyp

[getbak]

Stupid Hawks delaying the inevitable means the Flames have to play an afternoon game tomorrow.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by getbak

Stupid Hawks delaying the inevitable means the Flames have to play an afternoon game tomorrow.

I don’t want the Knights to just an easy ride even if they will inevitably win the series.

They’ve had it easy enough in their short existence, let the Hawks grind them for another game or two, or even better three.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by getbak

Stupid Hawks delaying the inevitable means the Flames have to play an afternoon game tomorrow.

Might not be a bad thing.

3:30 start might be better for the team than an 8:30 start.

I've seen both coaches in both the NHL and NBA bubbles have said their teams seem fresher and more engaged in the earlier starts than they have been waiting all day for the game to start.

Plus ice is better for the first game.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It's nice that the NHL was able to immediately insert a Stanley Cup contender into the Flames division right when our window was supposed to be opening, I look forward to Seattle doing the same thing in two seasons. This time hopefully they get somebody really good from the Flames just to make it all the more enjoyable.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Disagree...for competitive balance they should have to give up a player. Its not like they would have turned down a franchise if this was the case. The fact that the Redwings have to give up a player but Vegas doesn't is ridiculous IMO. Especially after the ridiculous expansion rules.

I agree with the rest of what you said

This is some interesting revisionist history considering most everyone had Vegas pegged as a draft lottery contender in their first season, especially during and immediately after the draft. No one felt that they were gifted a deep playoff roster.

The idea that an expansion team should suffer before seeing success is a pretty outdated one in my opinion. Why not give someone who invested $250-500 million in a franchise an opportunity to make good moves right off the bat?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

This is some interesting revisionist history considering most everyone had Vegas pegged as a draft lottery contender in their first season, especially during and immediately after the draft. No one felt that they were gifted a deep playoff roster.

They had by FAR the best expansion draft rules ever. Christ they got a top 5 goalie

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

This is some interesting revisionist history considering most everyone had Vegas pegged as a draft lottery contender in their first season, especially during and immediately after the draft. No one felt that they were gifted a deep playoff roster.

The idea that an expansion team should suffer before seeing success is a pretty outdated one in my opinion. Why not give someone who invested $250-500 million in a franchise an opportunity to make good moves right off the bat?

Everybody thought that because every expansion team prior to Vegas sucked ass to begin with so it was expected. Nobody expected them to be a Cup contender right off the bat even with the rules changed for the Vegas expansion draft.

They pay that money to get a team. Once they have the team they should have to build it to contender status just like everybody else, not be gifted a goddamn contender right from the get go. It's a farce.

[SeanCharles]

Honestly if you want to sum up a big reason for their immediate success look no further than 3 teams:

Florida: Trades them Smith to take Marchessault (2 x top 6 forwards)
Columbus: Trades them 2017 1st rd pick, 2019 2nd rd pick to take Karlsson (top 6 center)
Minnesota: Trades them Tuch to take Haula

- Columbus’ 1st was traded in another deal with Winnipeg to move up to 13 (Suzuki) who was used to trade for Pacioretty (top 6 forward). The Clb 2nd was also used in this deal.
- Haula had 29G, 55P in year one and was traded for Nick Roy who along with Tuch form a big young pair to form their 3rd line.

Florida gave them two top six forwards, Columbus gave them one top six forward and the assets to acquire a second one. Minnesota gave them a big young RWer with great upside and the assets to acquire a big young 3rd line center.

These three teams helped them acquire 6 of their top 9 forwards to sprinkle in with Stone and Stastny.

[SuperMatt18]

Yup - the expansion rules were generous but the bigger part of it was teams also made horrible decisions.

If the three teams above don't do anything wonky the Knights end up with:

Florida: Petrovic
Columbus: Josh Anderson
Minnesota: Dumba

Plus some other teams made mistakes too:

Pittsburgh: Paying a 2nd to have them take Fleury instead of Murray
Anaheim: Trade Theodore instead of letting them take Vatanen or Manson
Tampa Bay: 2nd, 4th, Gusev for them to take Garrison

Really look at who they took and the roster wasn't that great, it was all mistakes of teams paying assets to protect the wrong people. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...ion-draft-now/

It's the net of those trades that made the Knights a contender, not the expansion draft itself:

Marchessault, Smith, Karlsson, Tuch, Haula, Fleury, Theodore, 1st, 2 2nds

for

Petrovic, Anderson, Dumba, Murray, & Manson

Doesn't really look like they would be a contender anymore does it?

[looooob]

the expansion process was generous to them for a few reasons IMO. and yes I am still impressed at what they pulled off as I didn't think their roster was as good as it was



protection limits from other clubs- especially in a cap world if you have a pick of a teams 4th best d or 3rd line forwards, you can build a really deep team- especially if you choose cost effectively.



salary cap/floor- cap has some teams willing to part with good players that are just too rich for their structure. as an expansion team you don't mind taking them to get to floor


what I thought they would be missing is the high end talent- but I guess 2 things happened- the guys they grabbed (esp from FLA, CBJ, MINN) were better than I thought (year one) but also as a team in a cool city and with lots of spending room , and lots of picks- as easy as year one or two to grab marquee UFAs or pending UFAs and slot them in


so different than any previous iteration

[Larry David]

Originally Posted by getbak

Stupid Hawks delaying the inevitable means the Flames have to play an afternoon game tomorrow.

small price to pay in order to have had the hawks eliminate the oilers, no?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yup - the expansion rules were generous but the bigger part of it was teams also made horrible decisions.

If the three teams above don't do anything wonky the Knights end up with:

Florida: Petrovic
Columbus: Josh Anderson
Minnesota: Dumba

Plus some other teams made mistakes too:

Pittsburgh: Paying a 2nd to have them take Fleury instead of Murray
Anaheim: Trade Theodore instead of letting them take Vatanen or Manson
Tampa Bay: 2nd, 4th, Gusev for them to take Garrison

Really look at who they took and the roster wasn't that great, it was all mistakes of teams paying assets to protect the wrong people. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...ion-draft-now/

It's the net of those trades that made the Knights a contender, not the expansion draft itself:

Marchessault, Smith, Karlsson, Tuch, Haula, Fleury, Theodore, 1st, 2 2nds

for

Petrovic, Anderson, Dumba, Murray, & Manson

Doesn't really look like they would be a contender anymore does it?

Not to mention, with the exception of Fleury, nobody predicted that every one of those guys would turn out to be a diamond in the rough, except maybe GMGM and even then.

Vegas could have easily been a team with four 3rd lines, like most people predicted. Then they’d be in no mans land drafting 14th every year with only mediocre roster players.

Instead they have a stacked team with loads of draft picks. Seems like excellent drafting to me. (Including exp draft when I use that term)

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

They pay that money to get a team. Once they have the team they should have to build it to contender status just like everybody else, not be gifted a goddamn contender right from the get go. It's a farce.

Again, they weren't gifted a contender. It's easy for you to say this in hindsight, but at the time no one was saying that.

https://www.knightsonice.com/2018/4/...golden-knights

What this is intended to do is remind everyone that prior to puck drop on opening night, no one was saying that the league rigged the draft so Vegas would be this massive success story. In fact, the Golden Knights were thought to be a bad team with a bottom-of-the-barrel near future. While the Knights may have had more favorable expansion rules than teams in the past, you don’t win a division with bottom-six forwards, below-average defencemen and backup goalies.

The following is what was said in the days and months after the expansion draft.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

not be gifted a goddamn contender right from the get go. It's a farce.

this is what you said during the draft:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Starting to think Vegas isnt going to be as good the next couple of seasons as they could have been but will come out of this with one of the best prospect pools in the league and decent stable of young NHLers.

Probably be a very good team in 3 to 5 years.

I think you've revised your recollection of the draft after guys like Marchessault, Karlsson, Schmidt, Theodore, Tuch, Smith blew up. On their own teams they were Bennett/Kylington/Mangiapane types. Guys that bubble teams didn't feel were worth elevating up the lineup (or in Marchessault's case, an expected one-hit-wonder)