06-19-2020, 02:31 AM
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#141
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
Pence is the Whitest white guy ever...him and Harris in a debate about race would be hilarious
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As I've said before, The White House would find some way to not have Pence to debate Harris, Not only would Harris destroy him, Pence might actually cry on live camera.
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06-19-2020, 02:45 AM
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#142
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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06-19-2020, 07:04 AM
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#143
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
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Sorry but for the uninitiated, does Gaetz not have an adopted son at all? Or is he just parading his son around?
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06-19-2020, 07:08 AM
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#144
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
Seriously? The most qualified candidate is the person who is best suited to becoming president in the case that the top of the ticket dies. It isn't a job you give out for symbolic reasons. Particularly where you have an older candidate, if the public doesn't think your VP pick is capable to do your job if you die, that can backfire spectacularly. Ask John McCain.
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The most qualified candidate rarely gets selected and the VP position on the ticket is a tactical selection about activating the base. Many times the VP candidate is forced on the man leading the ticket. Has been this way for a hundred plus years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
You guys are kind of missing the point. I don't have an issue with a strategic VP choice (although I don't think prioritizing a woman of colour should be the priority, as opposed to regional appeal, althoughmaybe Stacey Abrams provides both). The problem is going on TV and announcing that's what you're doing in a self-congratulatory gesture that is transparently a matter of saving face. You're handing the other side a free ad about how smug and out of touch you are. It's an unsaid reality that VP candidates are chosen for electoral math reasons, and the public tends not to love it when you make it really obvious that your pick was made to help you win, not help run the country. Same goes for campaign promises - "he'll say anything to win the election" is not a compliment.
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This is the right thing to do. Klobuchar had a big following and support, so it best to give her an honorable out and allow her to push her supporters to accept the outcome and get behind the party, you know, like the way Clinton didn't do that with Bernie supporters. Politics is all about saving face and keeping power through alliances. Klobuchar will see her reward further down the line, likely through some cabinet position, or remaining in the senate as a major player in forwarding the party agenda. Giving her the opportunity to bow out gracefully ensures her ability to fight another day.
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As I say, this is sort of a double whammy, because I don't think Klobuchar did this to help Biden win, so much as to make herself look better to the base when she realized she wasn't going to be picked.
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Yes Klobucher did this to help Biden win. She has way too many problems involved with the current events to pick her. Her track record and selection would be a massive slap in the face to the very electorate that Biden needs to push Trump out of office. If he selects a candidate that does not activate the segments of the electorate his campaign is trying to reach (young voters and black voters) then his selection is a failure. The VP pick is about generating excitement in populations and driving them to the polls. I'm disappointed to see her drop out of contention, but felt this was inevitable after the first week of protests in Minnesota. Her usefulness as a running mate was destroyed by that one event.
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06-19-2020, 07:34 AM
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#145
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addition by subtraction
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
Not to distract from the thread but your boss is a huge dick.
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So we are going to be able to leave at 12 and work from home this afternoon. They actually shut the building down and I had to badge in to get in the door. There are like 10 cars here for a 5 story office building.
All is quiet for now. Rain moving in so maybe that will keep people inside.
They put a curfew in place to lock down the area around the arena and moved the people camping out for the event. So I think the city is trying to keep things from getting crazy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
This individual is not affluent and more of a member of that shrinking middle class. It is likely the individual does not have a high paying job, is limited on benefits, and has to make due with those benefits provided by employer.
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06-19-2020, 09:24 AM
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#146
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobbles
So we are going to be able to leave at 12 and work from home this afternoon. They actually shut the building down and I had to badge in to get in the door. There are like 10 cars here for a 5 story office building.
All is quiet for now. Rain moving in so maybe that will keep people inside.
They put a curfew in place to lock down the area around the arena and moved the people camping out for the event. So I think the city is trying to keep things from getting crazy.
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Do you see many confederate flags or anything? This has potential to be a real white supremacist rally/ BLM counter-rally.
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06-19-2020, 09:39 AM
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#147
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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Matt Gaetz is the real life Jonah Ryan.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
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"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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06-19-2020, 09:41 AM
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#148
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addition by subtraction
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfotiu
Do you see many confederate flags or anything? This has potential to be a real white supremacist rally/ BLM counter-rally.
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I have not. And I didn't drive around this morning to see if people were assembled anywhere. There was rumor that there would be protests and counter protests going on at the same time, so I think thats why the city put in the curfew. The curfew is actually all day today and goes until 6am tomorrow.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
This individual is not affluent and more of a member of that shrinking middle class. It is likely the individual does not have a high paying job, is limited on benefits, and has to make due with those benefits provided by employer.
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06-19-2020, 09:57 AM
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#149
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: not lurking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handgroen
Sorry but for the uninitiated, does Gaetz not have an adopted son at all? Or is he just parading his son around?
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Yeah, he seems to legitimately have an adopted son, but he never made that fact widely known, including on press-releases that list his family and pets; his office answers any biographical info requests are describing him as 'single, no children'. Then suddenly he's apparently angry about having his hypothetical parental concern called into question (even though that was not at all what the question was about), and made a big deal about having a non-white son in a congress meeting. It's just a totally out-of-the-blue plot development (hence the Simpsons 'Roy' meme where this character appears and we're expected to just act like he's been in the story the whole time).
I'm going to give Gaetz the benefit of the doubt and assume that it's about 70% him wanting to keep the boy out of the public spotlight, and 30% being unsure of how having a non-white, immigrant son would play with his voters, until an opportunity to score political points presented itself. But those numbers may be backwards.
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06-19-2020, 11:03 AM
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#150
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Franchise Player
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Watching premiership teams take a knee in solidarity with BLM while simultaneously reading about Trump warning any protesters that if they come near the rally they could get roughed up...
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06-19-2020, 11:38 AM
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#152
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A small painted room
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Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf
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I'm quite happy Bolton is gone, for the sake of international relations and security. He dumbly ended up making the right choice there. But then he plays tough guy with his own citizens 
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06-19-2020, 12:27 PM
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#153
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
You guys are kind of missing the point. I don't have an issue with a strategic VP choice (although I don't think prioritizing a woman of colour should be the priority, as opposed to regional appeal, althoughmaybe Stacey Abrams provides both). The problem is going on TV and announcing that's what you're doing in a self-congratulatory gesture that is transparently a matter of saving face. You're handing the other side a free ad about how smug and out of touch you are. It's an unsaid reality that VP candidates are chosen for electoral math reasons, and the public tends not to love it when you make it really obvious that your pick was made to help you win, not help run the country. Same goes for campaign promises - "he'll say anything to win the election" is not a compliment.
As I say, this is sort of a double whammy, because I don't think Klobuchar did this to help Biden win, so much as to make herself look better to the base when she realized she wasn't going to be picked.
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Anyone who cares about this is one of those people who claim they are on the left but have no choice but to vote for Trump. If this is going to change your opinion - you were going to vote for Trump regardless. Trump has his daughter and son in law in important positions I highly doubt anyone who is ok to vote for that, is really all that concerned with people potentially weighting the scale for a woman of colour for VP.
And if that person really does exist - they were likely already lost when Biden said he'd go with a woman VP to begin with.
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06-19-2020, 12:38 PM
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#154
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Franchise Player
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All of these "these people weren't going to vote for Biden anyway" arguments ring very hollow to me. There is a significant cadre of potential voters who are turned off by this tendency on the left to treat the electorate like the editorial board of the New York Times. Woke signalling - even the appearance of it - hurts your chances of getting them to vote for you. Many of them are even on the far left, squarely in the Bernie camp.
Honestly, the thought process that a lot of people seem to go through when voting is not very sophisticated. There are plenty of people who will go to the polls that are fickle enough that they'll be swayed by things as simple as whether you come across as sincere. I mean there are plenty of things that should be wholly disqualifying for Trump to ever receive anyone's vote, but if your view is that none of the people who might show up to vote for him are in any way persuadable not to, I think that's both incorrect and defeatist, especially given that there were plenty of them who voted for Obama the previous two elections. So I have to just reject your whole premise there.
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Last edited by CorsiHockeyLeague; 06-19-2020 at 12:41 PM.
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06-19-2020, 12:38 PM
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#155
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: A place for Mom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf
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Nothing like threatening your own citizens. President of some People of the United States.
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06-19-2020, 01:02 PM
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#156
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
All of these "these people weren't going to vote for Biden anyway" arguments ring very hollow to me. There is a significant cadre of potential voters who are turned off by this tendency on the left to treat the electorate like the editorial board of the New York Times. Woke signalling - even the appearance of it - hurts your chances of getting them to vote for you. Many of them are even on the far left, squarely in the Bernie camp.
Honestly, the thought process that a lot of people seem to go through when voting is not very sophisticated. There are plenty of people who will go to the polls that are fickle enough that they'll be swayed by things as simple as whether you come across as sincere. I mean there are plenty of things that should be wholly disqualifying for Trump to ever receive anyone's vote, but if your view is that none of the people who might show up to vote for him are in any way persuadable not to, I think that's both incorrect and defeatist, especially given that there were plenty of them who voted for Obama the previous two elections. So I have to just reject your whole premise there.
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I agree that woke signalling can be a problem for some dems. Don't really consider it an issue for Biden but to continue with your theory - there is a balancing act that all candidates need to follow.
You have to keep all aspects of your potential voters happy. If both candidates were just worried about winning centrist voters than Trump wouldn't dog whistle and nod to the racist elements of the far right and Biden would perhaps pick a white guy as his VP candidate. But Trump wants the far right to come out in big numbers and Biden wants the progressives to come out in big numbers for him. So here we are.
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06-19-2020, 01:07 PM
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#157
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Franchise Player
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I don't think we fundamentally disagree, and I think this conversation has gotten to a point where it might seem like I was placing more importance on Klobuchar's appearance than I really was. My reaction was essentially an eye roll, and the immediate thought, "you don't need to try to win kudos for suggesting that a black woman be selected as veep. Just make the pick, don't try to convince everyone what a good person you are for making it, that #### always backfires."
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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06-19-2020, 01:13 PM
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#158
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Truculent!
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What even is woke signalling?
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06-19-2020, 01:16 PM
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#159
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: North Vancouver
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06-19-2020, 03:37 PM
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#160
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wastedyouth
What even is woke signalling?
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Something very different from this?
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