[PGT] Blues 3 - Flames 1

[WhiteTiger]

Ugh, we lost 3-1 to the Blues? I don't think I even want to watch the 'highlights', in that case.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

When has it happened before? Brad Treliving is one of the most active GMs in the entire League.

I don't think management is above reproach, but I see nothing from this group that suggests they would ever be reluctant to make necessary changes if they could. It seems very unlikely to me that Treliving is just passing over readily available upgrades. I think more often than not fans have virtually no idea about how hard it is to make NHL trades—even seemingly easy ones like for a new NHL backup goalie.

Okay, but it’s always easy to be “proven” right by saying that making changes is the wrong choice. That’s the EASY choice. But how can you honestly say anyone who has been available FOR FREE would be definitively worse than Smith?

Minnesota’s starting goaltender was waived by multiple teams, the first of which is the one you yourself have been most vocally abusive of. NHL management does not always know better than fans.

[red sky]

CP is a knowledgable fan base. We identified many issues from the last few years that have been addressed now. If we fast forward one year when Mike Smith is out of the league we will be right again. Smith unfortunately is no longer a viable solution for the Flames this year or beyond. He is costing this team games and his playing style does not exhude any confidence. I am confident CP will be right again.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Okay, but it’s always easy to be “proven” right by saying that making changes is the wrong choice. That’s the EASY choice. But how can you honestly say anyone who has been available FOR FREE would be definitively worse than Smith?

The ONLY posters in this thread who have been definitive about anything are those who continue to insist that Mike Smith is worse than every other goalie in the NHL. I have never suggested that an available goalie would definitely be worse. I continue to argue that I doubt there are any available who would prove to be any better—it's a subtle but important difference. In other words, I don't believe the Flames would have won 11 games in front of just any goalie they could have acquired for free.

Minnesota’s starting goaltender was waived by multiple teams, the first of which is the one you yourself have been most vocally abusive of. NHL management does not always know better than fans.

Yeah, good luck with that.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, what do you think is happening?

Do you think that Flames management is either unable to see something that is patently obvious, or are they intentionally ignoring it?

I think making a change is proving to be fairly difficult.

I think 2 things are happening:

1. It's tough to push someone into retirement
2. Solutions are being worked on or went somewhere else

For all we know, Brad is kicking himself giving Smith the opportunity and letting a few solutions pass by. For all we know, a plan B started with 'after Christmas'.

In either case, I don't think letting Smith shart all over his starts more than half the time is sitting too well with him either.

I can't think that terrible goaltending is something we're just gonna breeze by yet. I just think they're a lot more gunshy than the rest of us that don't have to do the dirty work.

If Smith called me right now and asked for 1 more chance, I'm caving too.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The ONLY posters in this thread who have been definitive about anything are those who continue to insist that Mike Smith is worse than every other goalie in the NHL.

Sigh. The number of goalies who are STATISTICALLY worse than Smith are enumerated on one hand. None of them have received as many starts. The eye test does not disprove how bad he’s been. What more evidence do you need that a change MIGHT be beneficial? Even if it isn’t, how much worse could it possibly get?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Split98

I think 2 things are happening:

1. It's tough to push someone into retirement
2. Solutions are being worked on or went somewhere else

For all we know, Brad is kicking himself giving Smith the opportunity and letting a few solutions pass by. For all we know, a plan B started with 'after Christmas'.

In either case, I don't think letting Smith shart all over his starts more than half the time is sitting too well with him either.

I can't think that terrible goaltending is something we're just gonna breeze by yet. I just think they're a lot more gunshy than the rest of us that don't have to do the dirty work.

If Smith called me right now and asked for 1 more chance, I'm caving too.

This is a solid post, thanks. I don't see anything here that significantly disputes anything that I have said up to this point.

[motorcrosser]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Lol, did John Shannon just call Jay Bouwmeester "one of the best defensemen in Flames history"?

They're all good once they leave cgy. History...

Sent from Indianapolis

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Sigh. The number of goalies who are STATISTICALLY worse than Smith are enumerated on one hand. The eye test does not disprove this. What more evidence do you need that a change MIGHT be beneficial? Even if it isn’t, how much worse could it possibly get?

Of course it might be better, but I sincerely doubt that management operates by flinging whatever at the wall, shrugging their shoulders, and hoping that things cannot get any worse.

Take a look at Split98's post above. I suspect this is fairly representative of what is going on right now.

[chummer]

I remember on the radio a couple of years ago Treliving said he was sick of talking about goaltending. I'm sure he still is.

Thank God for Rittich.

[FireGilbert]

Smith was crap but so was the rest of the team. If someone told me before the game Smith would let in 3 and 2 of then would be really bad I would have said that sucks but I still expect the Flames to win 5-3.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Which a repeat of my point, yes. We’re winning in spite of his poor play, but he’s “costing us so much”?



My thoughts: nah, not really. We’re doing just fine despite Smith being bad. Some might even say great.



Call me crazy for not panicking over Smith being on the roster when we’re one of the best teams in the league anyway. Too much to feel good about to worry about the backup goaltender.

Remember when we ran Kipper ragged and he had nothing left in the playoffs?

A backup that can give you the night off and still keep you climbing is crucial. And let's not forget that we don't know yet how long Rittch can play at this level this year.

The results are great so far, I agree - and personally, I think this is a really easy solution. But 8 points (Smith's cost so far) is pretty significant when it comes to any home ice in the playoffs.

It's not panic level, it's 'enough already' level.

[FireGilbert]

Smith on his own didn't cost the team points tonight. The offense that averages close to 3.5 goals a game only putting up 1 against Jake Allen was a pretty big reason for the loss too.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is a solid post, thanks. I don't see anything here that significantly disputes anything that I have said up to this point.

Yeah, I think it really comes down to how much rope you're willing to give him. I personally have him a lot back in that 6-game stretch, as he is clearly a gamer. But goal #1 tonight clawed that back fairly quickly.

Earlier this season there was a lot of talk about whether he'd recover to be a 1B... but I think most the the fanbase is on the same side at this point.

I think where everyone drew the line determines how many options passed by since then. I'm hoping that this break was Tre's line myself

[dammage79]

Team scoring is going to have it's lulls. But thats when things should tighten up defensively to keep the scores within reach. Sounds like the game was within reach today. Tons of chances in the highlights.

Get that Turkey in them. enjoy the Xmas break and get back into work mode ASAP. A big old lull heading into the ASG is not a good thing.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Smith on his own didn't cost the team points tonight. The offense that averages close to 3.5 goals a game only putting up 1 against Jake Allen was a pretty big reason for the loss too.

I think a very big portion of it lays on Smith.

You hope this team shows up for every game...
...but an afternoon game before the break against a team you spanked is ripe for a poor effort. Start things off with goaltending that's gonna ask you to put up 4... that's a tough loss.

If Smith makes 2 very average stops were 1-1. Surely Smith's efforts deflated the team just enough to consider that the Flames put up at least 1 playing with a bit more juice.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Split98

Yeah, I think it really comes down to how much rope you're willing to give him. I personally have him a lot back in that 6-game stretch, as he is clearly a gamer. But goal #1 tonight clawed that back fairly quickly.

Earlier this season there was a lot of talk about whether he'd recover to be a 1B... but I think most the the fanbase is on the same side at this point.

I think where everyone drew the line determines how many options passed by since then. I'm hoping that this break was Tre's line myself

For me it's the fugliest goals ever scored on a goalie, that happen once a game it seems. Even when he's red hot there's that one cow pie just waiting to spring under your boot. And it happens. Every single game (except the 2 shutouts).

I had enough to know he was on a one way ticket out of here after that Av's goal waaaay back before he got his mojo sort of back.

I was done with Smith then. But Freaking out about every game Smith starts isn't worth the negative energy either.

(Following is not directed at you, just a general thought)

Bottom line is this, if they're not going to get a suitable replacement goalie we're going to see Smith play games for the Flames. Deal with it everyone.

Just be nice about it and don't gum up good GT threads with the constant pointing out of the obvious.

We all know Smith sucks. None of us want to hear it every 8 minutes. There's no fresh hot takes anymore when crying about Smith.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The ONLY posters in this thread who have been definitive about anything are those who continue to insist that Mike Smith is worse than every other goalie in the NHL. I have never suggested that an available goalie would definitely be worse. I continue to argue that I doubt there are any available who would prove to be any better—it's a subtle but important difference. In other words, I don't believe the Flames would have won 11 games in front of just any goalie they could have acquired for free.


Yeah, good luck with that.

Including every goalie that has played a game this year Smith is 62nd in sv% but only 46th in GAA. This is a result of playing on a good team that on a lot of nights outscores their bad goaltending. Jon Gillies had better numbers on a significantly worse team last year. Logically speaking the flames would get an upgrade sending Smith down and calling Gillies up.

You can believe what you want but there is absolutely no data or evidence that suggests that there isn't 61 other goalies on the league right now that would be an upgrade over Smith, a division and sometimes conference leading team with a 61st ranked goalie getting more than a backups share of starts is beyond unacceptable.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by Split98

I think a very big portion of it lays on Smith.

You hope this team shows up for every game...
...but an afternoon game before the break against a team you spanked is ripe for a poor effort. Start things off with goaltending that's gonna ask you to put up 4... that's a tough loss.

If Smith makes 2 very average stops were 1-1. Surely Smith's efforts deflated the team just enough to consider that the Flames put up at least 1 playing with a bit more juice.

The Flames score on average more than 3 goals per game and the Blues on average give up more than 3 goals against per game. If your backup goalie gives up 3 goals against the Blues you should win the game more often than not.



Smith was terrible but I don't think it if fair to give him most or all of the blame. This loss was a full team effort.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Of course it might be better, but I sincerely doubt that management operates by flinging whatever at the wall, shrugging their shoulders, and hoping that things cannot get any worse..

Yeah, much better to hold on to a handful of whatever then throw it away.