[PGT] Predators def. Flames, 5-3

[JT96912]

Originally Posted by timbit

My point was that he was NOT the reason the Flames lost tonight.

Nothing more and nothing less.

He was one of the reasons though. 3rd and 4th goals, one of them should be stopped. Failure of Mathew and Sam to hit easy goals, Neal's stupid penalty and the Refs were all factors. But he definitely was one of the reasons for this loss. It just feels to me that at any point, for whatever reason, like him mishandling a Puck, that he will allow a stupid goal. Vernon and Kipper gave me absolute confidence. Mike Smith, not at all.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by JT96912

He was one of the reasons though. 3rd and 4th goals, one of them should be stopped. Failure of Mathew and Sam to hit easy goals, Neal's stupid penalty and the Refs were all factors. But he definitely was one of the reasons for this loss. It just feels to me that at any point, for whatever reason, like him mishandling a Puck, that he will allow a stupid goal. Vernon and Kipper gave me absolute confidence. Mike Smith, not at all.

Anybody else, in your opinion, directly the cause of goals against?

More so than Smith?

If so , why are we not talking about them in the same unfavorable tone?

[SeanCharles]

The 3 players I had the biggest problems with tonight:

3. Brodie - made a few bad plays, including letting the player skate to the slot on the first goal after dropping his stick.

2. Frolik - he took a penalty at a terrible time in the game, I thought he made some bad passes, one of which was a pass back that got picked off by Nashville's forecheck. Reminded me of Vegas game last year in some ways. One great game and now back to the doghouse.

1. Smith - if Andersson is positioned closer to the pass on a 2-on-1 and slides down to block it, why are you in a position to save the pass which leaves you slightly exposed on the shooter? A fourth line grinder shouldn't be roofing it on our starting goalie.

I didn't like Neal's penalty that cost us either but overall thought he was skating hard tonight and continues to build chemistry with Bennett. Ryan looked quite good with them on a few shifts.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

A fourth line grinder shouldn't be roofing it on our starting goalie.
.

But he did, with a perfect shot.

Is that on Smith?

[JT96912]

Originally Posted by timbit

Anybody else, in your opinion, directly the cause of goals against?

More so than Smith?

If so , why are we not talking about them in the same unfavorable tone?

Tj, absolutely. I think when Hamonic comes back we should use him as a piece to acquire a stable net minder. Gio-Valamaki, Hannafin-Anderson, Stone- Hamonic or some blender of this. If our goal is to win a Cup we have to acquire a goalie that is capable of taking us there. We need CONSISTENCY, not one offs here and there. Just my opinion

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

The 3 players I had the biggest problems with tonight:

3. Brodie - made a few bad plays, including letting the player skate to the slot on the first goal after dropping his stick.

2. Frolik - he took a penalty at a terrible time in the game, I thought he made some bad passes, one of which was a pass back that got picked off by Nashville's forecheck. Reminded me of Vegas game last year in some ways. One great game and now back to the doghouse.

1. Smith - if Andersson is positioned closer to the pass on a 2-on-1 and slides down to block it, why are you in a position to save the pass which leaves you slightly exposed on the shooter? A fourth line grinder shouldn't be roofing it on our starting goalie.

I didn't like Neal's penalty that cost us either but overall thought he was skating hard tonight and continues to build chemistry with Bennett. Ryan looked quite good with them on a few shifts.

I had to laugh on Frolik's penalty. He was having a fantastic shift with three hits causing Press turnovers. He was utterly fantastic out there winning the contested battles. ... and then he takes that chincy penalty to screw it up

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by JT96912

Tj, absolutely. I think when Hamonic comes back we should use him as a piece to acquire a stable net minder. Gio-Valamaki, Hannafin-Anderson, Stone- Hamonic or some blender of this. If our goal is to win a Cup we have to acquire a goalie that is capable of taking us there. We need CONSISTENCY, not one offs here and there. Just my opinion

At the beginning of the year I would’ve vehemently been against this but Valimaki and Andersson have exceeded all expectation, neither deserve a demotion to the AHL. I don’t think Brodie has been as terrible as this board makes him sound but he would fetch a pretty good return for a goalie.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by JJFlash

Which ones was Smith supposed to save? Brodie had a rough game and we missed 2 open nets.

A #1 goalie makes saves that they're "not supposed to". That's what separates them from bad goalies. A goalie that just stops the easy ones isn't good enough to be a #1 goaltender in the NHL.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by codynw

A #1 goalie makes saves that they're "not supposed to". That's what separates them from bad goalies. A goalie that just stops the easy ones isn't good enough to be a #1 goaltender in the NHL.

Based on your parameters, how did the current Vezina winner do tonight?

Did he outplay Smith?

[Strange Brew]

I’m not apologizing for Smith at all, but also seems to me that other than the game in Nashville and the last 2 periods in Denver, this team is giving up more high quality scoring chances than it should. Big breakdown type of chances.

I’m hoping that can get cleaned up with some attention and focus.

The goaltending is probably more about personnel. The Flames are playing some up tempo hockey this year, which may just lead to giving up a lot of chances.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by timbit

Based on your parameters, how did the current Vezina winner do tonight?

Did he outplay Smith?

Yes because I am basing my opinion of Mike Smith on just this one game.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by codynw

Yes because I am basing my opinion of Mike Smith on just this one game.

My mistake, thought we were in the PGT.

[shogged]

I don’t think this game is on smith. First goal scored from in between the hash marks, second goal alone with time to play in the slot, third goal alone at the side of the net on a power play.

Maybe smith would have looked better if he got a bit more support out there tonight.

[stemit14]

Smith is reminding me so much of hiller right now. His lateral movement has taken a nose dive. And he is being beat blocker side so much. I remember watching hiller with the flames and it was painful watching him trying to make a glove save by throwing his whole shoulder upward. It feels so much like the flames when they had hiller in net.

It’s really tough for the players cause I believe it makes it feel like he isn’t part of the winning on this team. The team wins in spite of him most nights rather than because of him. I know that none of the goals were particularly bad goals but he’s supposed be the number one goaltender... that means he supposed to stop the tough ones sometimes. Not just the easy ones. And he’s even making easy saves look harder than they should.

Right now. The players have to feel that they need to get two or three times as many legitimate scoring chances than the other team in order to win. Not because the other goalies have been that good... but because smith is letting in more goals relative to scoring chances than the opposing goalie almost every game.

It also doesn’t help that smith’s personality as a goalie is not one that goes over well with players. He gets mad and blames guys when they make mistakes that lead to goals. And he tries to do too much with puck handling and it’s more often leading to turnovers. Broadcasters like to say ”oh he’s just such a great competitor, that’s why he gets upset” but anyone who has played hockey for long periods of time knows what it’s like to play in front of this kind of goalie and how much players hate it. It makes the players frustrated with him. As a player... it’s never your place to give the goalie crap for screwing up... and the goalie should return that courtesy.

I was happy Treliving got the guys out of the room that were likely not fitting in with the team and not helping them become closer as a team (Brouwer, Hamilton). I felt smith was one of those guys and was hoping he would be replaced in the off-season. Still hopeful it can somehow happen. I honestly think the team plays better in front of Rittich. He’s apparently loved in the room and he’s a battler that plays the game like he’s so happy to be part of the team.


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[timbit]

Originally Posted by stemit14

Smith is reminding me so much of hiller right now. His lateral movement has taken a nose dive. And he is being beat blocker side so much. I remember watching hiller with the flames and it was painful watching him trying to make a glove save by throwing his whole shoulder upward. It feels so much like the flames when they had hiller in net.

It’s really tough for the players cause I believe it makes it feel like he isn’t part of the winning on this team. The team wins in spite of him most nights rather than because of him. I know that none of the goals were particularly bad goals but he’s supposed be the number one goaltender... that means he supposed to stop the tough ones sometimes. Not just the easy ones. And he’s even making easy saves look harder than they should.

Right now. The players have to feel that they need to get two or three times as many legitimate scoring chances than the other team in order to win. Not because the other goalies have been that good... but because smith is letting in more goals relative to scoring chances than the opposing goalie almost every game.

It also doesn’t help that smith’s personality as a goalie is not one that goes over well with players. He gets mad and blames guys when they make mistakes that lead to goals. And he tries to do too much with puck handling and it’s more often leading to turnovers. Broadcasters like to say ”oh he’s just such a great competitor, that’s why he gets upset” but anyone who has played hockey for long periods of time knows what it’s like to play in front of this kind of goalie and how much players hate it. It makes the players frustrated with him. As a player... it’s never your place to give the goalie crap for screwing up... and the goalie should return that courtesy.

I was happy Treliving got the guys out of the room that were likely not fitting in with the team and not helping them become closer as a team (Brouwer, Hamilton). I felt smith was one of those guys and was hoping he would be replaced in the off-season. Still hopeful it can somehow happen. I honestly think the team plays better in front of Rittich. He’s apparently loved in the room and he’s a battler that plays the game like he’s so happy to be part of the team.


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Kind of interesting that Treliving would not have been aware of this “supposed” bad attitude after knowing him for so many years in Phoenix.

Sounds like a made up story to me.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by timbit

Kind of interesting that Treliving would not have been aware of this “supposed” bad attitude after knowing him for so many years in Phoenix.



Sounds like a made up story to me.

It’s definitely pure speculation on my part to say how the players feel about smith. I think we’ve all seen him lose his cool on teammates in games when they screw up deflecting a puck for example. I believe players prefer goalies that are calm and collected while still being fiercely competitive. Kipper was the perfect goaltender in this way. If a goal went in, he just took a drink of Gatorade and refocused. Seemingly never lashed out or lifted his arms in disgust at his own players. These are things we’ve seen smith do and Elliott did it as well.

You’re right though. Treliving has a better feel for the room than any of us ever could and he’s made some great moves so far. Love the direction the team is taking this year. Just would love to replace smith. It’s just an observation/speculation I’m making about smith based on experiences I’ve had in hockey as well as others that I have spoken to.


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[SeanCharles]

Actually looking at the winning goal again it looked like Smith was too far to the left, as Cassie points out.

https://streamable.com/2flwn

[Ragnar]

Smith did not lose us this game. We had ample chances to score and tie the game up but sh*t literally happened. We were on top of them during the whole third period but we just couldn't finish.

Smith has single handedly won as many games as he has "lost" us this year. The jury is still out on the guy. Still wishing we made a move for Grubauer to give us another legitimate option as Smith slows down though.

[81MC]

Hockey is a team sport, and I have a hard time pinning a loss on one specific player. At least two of the goals you could see coming a mile away. Goalies will make saves, and players will score, kind of hownjt goes. We had many ‘so close’ moments tonight, boys just couldn’t capitalize.

I thought it was a fun game to watch, and could have gone either way. I’m looking forward to fun, exciting hockey the rest of the year.

[slcrocket]

I agree with many that Smith didn't lose us this game tonight; but I am also with many who say that Smith is not a viable starting goalie for a team that fancies itself as at least getting to the second round of the playoffs.

But I don't see what real options we have this season. If you feel better about Rittich in net than you do about Smith, that's great - but I don't. I think they are both average netminders at best who are both best suited for backup roles. But there is no significant upgrade that is either 1) readily available via trade or 2) readily available for the limited assets we have to spend. And if there is, that goalie is not going to be made available until the deadline, meaning that we are locked in with what we have for the majority of the season.

Those saying Treliving has a decision to make about the goaltending must be seeing some option I'm not. You're not trading core guys for that significant upgrade in goalie, and the other guys you have are not good enough pieces to attract it. We are going to have to dance with who brung us for the time being, and unfortunately that is a rapidly aging #41.

The real problem is this organization's lack of ability to develop a young goalie. We've been renting players who are all for the most part past their primes (Hiller/Elliott/Smith) while waiting for Gillies or McDonald or Parsons to emerge, and none of them do. Gillies is 24 and was drafted third round in 2012 and can't seem to make the jump. McDonald is 22 and was drafted second round in 2014 and is in the ECHL. Parsons is 21 and was drafted second round in 2016 and only now has jumped to Stockton. I still personally hold out some hope for Parsons now that he's got his head right, but Gillies's and McDonald's extremely slow development (if we can call it that) has handicapped the future of that position for this team. Thank goodness we stumbled upon undrafted David Rittich or we'd be really screwed on this one.

This team is going to have to play some high-scoring games this year; fortunately not everyone is as good as Nashville and I think we'll win a lot of them.