I have to fly to Toronto for work in the next few weeks, so I will most certainly be paying a visit to Antler to try either the venison or the bison rib eye.
Had they not protested it, I'd never have heard about it and likely would have just gone to one of my usual spots. It's always lovely when people let you know about a fantastic new restaurant.
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Typical dumb take.
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It just has everything to do with exposure. If people encountered scorpions as much as they do cows it would be mayhem. Cows are really nice. They always come running up to us on hikes. It looks like they're going to trample you but they just come up for a close look. If you don't worry about them they leave you alone. The bulls always hang way behind like big chickens.
Tell that to the 22 people killed annually by cattle
In the United States, the CDC estimates that about twenty-two people are killed by cows each year, and of those cow attacks, seventy-five percent were known to be deliberate attacks. One third of the killings were committed by cows that had previously displayed aggressive behavior.
Group attacks can be surprisingly well-coordinated. When they're feeling defensive, cows will gather in a circle, all facing outwards, lowering their heads and stamping the ground. When they're feeling offensive, certain cows lead the charge. One man, who was attacked while walking his dog along a path, reported, "I fell forwards and rolled into a ball and every time I tried to get up they jumped on me; they were rolling me along the hill with their legs trying to get me to open up. There were seven or eight cows. There were a couple leaders."
Even the people who survive cow attacks rarely brush them off. In 2014, a mountaineer and cyclist was leading a race through a pasture when a group of cows attacked him. He received fractures on eight ribs, a shoulder, and a part of his spine. A woman, attacked the same year, got six broken ribs and a punctured lung. Cows mostly trample and kick people, but if they get their head beneath their victim they can literally throw a person into the air and let them fall back down on the ground.
Frightening.
Had those cows been slaughtered, those 22 people each year could still be alive
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Had those cows been slaughtered, those 22 people each year could still be alive
What a load of crap.
Look it’s still an animal so treat it with respect. Like one of the previous poster said the only time there aggressive is caving time and breeding time. There not going to climb a fence and attack you. Common sense and keep your distance. There not pets.
Also if your dumb enough to take a dog into a herd of cows you deserve that. I have seen cows put the run on coyotes at caving time if they can catch the coyotes they will trample they to death. Coyotes killing new born calves is common.
Look it’s still an animal so treat it with respect. Like one of the previous poster said the only time there aggressive is caving time and breeding time. There not going to climb a fence and attack you. Common sense and keep your distance. There not pets.
You would imprison them behind a fence? Thats infringing upon their rights!
Have you no shame?
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Had those cows been slaughtered, those 22 people each year could still be alive
Actually if no one ate meat those cows wouldn't have existed so no one dies. Which raises an interesting ethical questions.
Do Vegans support the end of cattle, pigs and chickens as a species? The pig might make it as a service animal in some form but chickens and cows are gone as graisimg land is replaced with grain crops. And we probably decrease wild deer populations as well as farm land is expanded and they become pests. Though in land not suitable for farming deer pops would expand.
You also increase the carrying capacity of the world for humans which may or may not be a good thing.
In the United States, the CDC estimates that about twenty-two people are killed by cows each year, and of those cow attacks, seventy-five percent were known to be deliberate attacks. One third of the killings were committed by cows that had previously displayed aggressive behavior.
If this is a serious article it's really funny. There are 95 million cows in the USA and 16 of them went rougue. Yes. We are looking at a cunning foe.
Virtuous? I don't know anybody who thinks eating (meat) normally is virtuous.
I guess, maybe this guy?
I actually find the argument the vast majority of vegans make morally problematic. Basically they cherry pick a set of circumstance based on a very narrow world view and apply universal ethics to situations that just aren't universal. Are people saying that animals are amoral for eating each other? Are they say long that your better off to kill 10 gophers planting a field of corn than one cow? Are they saying that the food insecurity to places like Mongolia and the dietary health crisises that would be created by their version of morality are outweighed by animal wellfair? Are they willing to back off the stance most of them take on gmos and fertilizer that would be required to make this system work?
I'm plucking at a few strawmen here, but in general if you are not taking a nuanced view of morality you are probably the one that is amoral.
I personally see no moral issues at all with eating meat, and couldn't disagree more with the idea that providing yourself with with a balanced and healthy diet is avirtuos. Although I am very open to conversations and arguemnts about the morality of how we get our meat and how much meat we eat.
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I actually find the argument the vast majority of vegans make morally problematic. Basically they cherry pick a set of circumstance based on a very narrow world view and apply universal ethics to situations that just aren't universal. Are people saying that animals are amoral for eating each other? Are they say long that your better off to kill 10 gophers planting a field of corn than one cow? Are they saying that the food insecurity to places like Mongolia and the dietary health crisises that would be created by their version of morality are outweighed by animal wellfair? Are they willing to back off the stance most of them take on gmos and fertilizer that would be required to make this system work?
I imagine that different people will make different moral arguments, but here's one.
P: Animals can suffer, and can also experience the absence of suffering.
P: Any creature that is capable of suffering and pleasure has the capacity to experince life.
P: Any creature with the capacity to experience life has moral worth.
P: It is morally wrong to rob anything capable of experiencing life of that life.
C: It is morally wrong to rob animals of their lives.
->
P: It is morally wrong to rob animals of their lives.
P: If person X takes an action that knowingly incentivizes another person or group of persons to take a separate, morally wrong action, Person X has committed a moral wrong
P: By eating meat, you are knowingly incentivizing persons involved in the meat production industry to rob animals of their lives.
C: By eating meat, you are committing a moral wrong.
There's one for vegetarianism, anyway (I arguably skipped a step). There's a softer one that simply involves incentivizing suffering by buying factory farmed meat, but that's not actually an argument for veganism per se. For veganism you'd probably have to go down a more complex road involving the conscription of creatures capable of leading independent lives and making decisions (albeit simplistic ones) into servitude for the purposes of creating sustenance for their masters - essentially a slavery ethic applied to animals.
Nonetheless, however you want to look at it, there are plenty of reasonable moral arguments available for these practices, even if you stay squarely within a consequentialist framework.
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An overlooked aspect to this debate is the fact that much of the developing world relies on meat for survival. Big swaths of the third world are not suitable for the growing of crops.
Similar to Organic vs. non-Organic this is such a Western luxury to worry about.
That being said, reducing meat consumption is important for many reasons from climate change to health care costs.
I could never be veggie - maybe I could I guess - but I don't think I really want to.
I think a lot of the messages Vegans have are legitimate and should be heard. The way in which some animals are born, raised and killed is truly shocking. That being said - their tactics at getting people to listen and buy in are horrible.
If you get a chance, listen to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast "Revisionist History.' There's a great episode (#9 I think) in season 1, that deals with more effective ways of protesting.
you'd think they would realize that people might be more willing to listen if they would try and educate someone instead of hectoring them and preaching at them. for this particular case, did they try and speak with the owner and sit down with the guy before they started their protests?
that being said, there are degrees for every belief. for example I work with someone who seriously believes that animals should have the same rights under the criminal code as humans. they should be completely equal.
she really does believe that you should go to jail for imprisoning animals and keeping them in slavery, and killing an animal should get you up on murder charges.
management left her alone until she started lecturing people in the lunchrooms over what they ate. she was ok at work until she went from only talking about her beliefs to trying to force them on us. (was kind of funny to be branded as someone who should go to jail over a ham sandwich)
Basically they cherry pick a set of circumstance based on a very narrow world view and apply universal ethics to situations that just aren't universal.
Pretty much the textbook definition of zealotry, right there. Of which (radical?) vegans merely only one brand.
I find the attacks by people on all sides to be annoying.
I just have two things to add
1. What's with all the predictions that eating meat will be "frowned upon" like smoking or dog fights? I don't see that happening, ever. We are going to start taking clients out for fancy $85 6 oz lettuce pile?
2. I find the thought of lab grown meat more off-putting that a humanely slaughtered animal's meat.
I find the attacks by people on all sides to be annoying.
I just have two things to add
1. What's with all the predictions that eating meat will be "frowned upon" like smoking or dog fights? I don't see that happening, ever. We are going to start taking clients out for fancy $85 6 oz lettuce pile?
2. I find the thought of lab grown meat more off-putting that a humanely slaughtered animal's meat.
Interesting (and I'm sure you're not alone). I'd be interested to hear why.
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you'd think they would realize that people might be more willing to listen if they would try and educate someone instead of hectoring them and preaching at them. for this particular case, did they try and speak with the owner and sit down with the guy before they started their protests?
that being said, there are degrees for every belief. for example I work with someone who seriously believes that animals should have the same rights under the criminal code as humans. they should be completely equal.
she really does believe that you should go to jail for imprisoning animals and keeping them in slavery, and killing an animal should get you up on murder charges.
management left her alone until she started lecturing people in the lunchrooms over what they ate. she was ok at work until she went from only talking about her beliefs to trying to force them on us. (was kind of funny to be branded as someone who should go to jail over a ham sandwich)
While I largely agree with you, I have on many occasions mentioned that often the medium is just as important as the message, meaning that the delivery of the message can often determine whether or not that message is received or ignored.
That being said, the guy is the owner and chef of a restaurant and was presumably too busy to really have an unscheduled 1-on-1 with a group of protesters who showed up in force with signs and a megaphone.
I wouldnt have given them the time of day either.
Either make an appointment and we can discuss your concerns in a civilized manner or take your stand on the pavement.
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