[News Roundup] Treliving and the trade deadline

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Assuming Mike Smith isn't back in the next 2-3 games I feel like Treliving should have acquired a proven NHL goalie.



No need to sell the farm for one, but an insurance policy in case the two rookies don't excel.



Seems risky to gamble the season on two rookie netminders.

Pittsburgh did. Worked out well for them.

[Roof-Daddy]

With our top picks being gone I'm as frusrated as anyone with the Flames this season, but I'd be wary of losing patience and making too many big changes. The underlying numbers are pretty solid and with a better bottom six and/or puck luck this team probably has 10 more points in the standings easily.

I wonder, if polled last year, how many Jets fans wanted Chevy and Maurice shot into the sun?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Assuming Mike Smith isn't back in the next 2-3 games I feel like Treliving should have acquired a proven NHL goalie.

No need to sell the farm for one, but an insurance policy in case the two rookies don't excel.

Seems risky to gamble the season on two rookie netminders.

The only goalie of note that would be available is Raanta. I think what we have is as good or better. And trading assets for 2-3 games doesn't seem wise to me.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

With our top picks being gone I'm as frusrated as anyone with the Flames this season, but I'd be wary of losing patience and making too many big changes. The underlying numbers are pretty solid and with a better bottom six and/or puck luck this team probably has 10 more points in the standings easily.

I wonder, if polled last year, how many Jets fans wanted Chevy and Maurice shot into the sun?

Two years ago, plenty.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

With our top picks being gone I'm as frusrated as anyone with the Flames this season, but I'd be wary of losing patience and making too many big changes. The underlying numbers are pretty solid and with a better bottom six and/or puck luck this team probably has 10 more points in the standings easily.

I wonder, if polled last year, how many Jets fans wanted Chevy and Maurice shot into the sun?

Yup if you look at the NHL this year the patient teams are best off.

Winnipeg
Boston
Tampa Bay
Philadelphia
Dallas
San Jose

Even Nashville had an identical record to the Flames now at this point last season. They didn't make any huge offseason trades or trade deadline deals last year and ended up in the finals and now first in their division this year.

All those teams didn't have as good as seasons as they would have liked last year, but were patient, made tweaks instead of blowing it up, and came out of it better this season.

Get rid of some deadweight in the bottom 6, redistribute some of our spend from defense to forward (Stone gone, Andersson brought up), and keep adding some youth to the system (Fox, Valikmaki, Phillips, Gawdin, etc)

[Torture]

Lol, I keep seeing this thread and clicking on it expecting a roundup of articles about Treliving's deadline. Why is it tagged News Roundup!

Should be like "PGT: Trade Deadline"

Anyways, I think the Flames did a good job only making minor moves. Would have been upset to see anybody like Fox, Bennet, etc traded unless the return was significant.

Teams like Winnipeg are successful now by being patient, not making the sexy trade deadline splash, and stockpiling assets. When the time comes you have to make a move but it doesn't seem like the year to go all in on rentals.

I don't understand the trade Stone camp either, get some depth on D and then just trade it away? Let's see how Andersson does in the NHL next season before trading Stone. What if somebody gets hurt - do you want Kulak, Andersson, Bartkowski, etc stepping into the top 4? Maybe next year, but to throw them in for the playoffs? It's too early. Furthermore, I'd attribute a lot of Kulak's success to having a steady, stable partner rather than one that's learning the ropes or a adventure in their zone like Bartkowski.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yup if you look at the NHL this year the patient teams are best off.

Winnipeg
Boston
Tampa Bay
Philadelphia
Dallas
San Jose

Even Nashville had an identical record to the Flames now at this point last season. They didn't make any huge offseason trades or trade deadline deals last year and ended up in the finals and now first in their division this year.

All those teams didn't have as good as seasons as they would have liked last year, but were patient, made tweaks instead of blowing it up, and came out of it better this season.

Get rid of some deadweight in the bottom 6, redistribute some of our spend from defense to forward (Stone gone, Andersson brought up), and keep adding some youth to the system (Fox, Valikmaki, Phillips, Gawdin, etc)

I agree with lots here but the Flames don't really need to shift cap from D to forward. They have tons of cap space.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

With our top picks being gone I'm as frusrated as anyone with the Flames this season, but I'd be wary of losing patience and making too many big changes. The underlying numbers are pretty solid and with a better bottom six and/or puck luck this team probably has 10 more points in the standings easily.

I wonder, if polled last year, how many Jets fans wanted Chevy and Maurice shot into the sun?

There's a bit of a pattern with the team's on the list if being patient and doing great now. They stayed the course and were ultra patient and stockpiling picks and drafting loads of talent (jets, Tb, bruins, etc).

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yup if you look at the NHL this year the patient teams are best off.

Winnipeg
Boston
Tampa Bay
Philadelphia
Dallas
San Jose

Even Nashville had an identical record to the Flames now at this point last season. They didn't make any huge offseason trades or trade deadline deals last year and ended up in the finals and now first in their division this year.

All those teams didn't have as good as seasons as they would have liked last year, but were patient, made tweaks instead of blowing it up, and came out of it better this season.

Get rid of some deadweight in the bottom 6, redistribute some of our spend from defense to forward (Stone gone, Andersson brought up), and keep adding some youth to the system (Fox, Valikmaki, Phillips, Gawdin, etc)

This is true but with the way the Flames have been trading picks last 12 months, I wouldn't exactly call them patient.

[EldrickOnIce]

The Homer goggles are working well last couple pages here.
This team lacks talent. Everyone hoped Bennett would be that guy by now, but he isn't - yet anyway.
So there are what they, a bubble team with some great top end talent enjoying best ever seasons under this coach.
If Flames miss the playoffs Gulutzan may be gone, otherwise it's not happening, nor should it.

This is my opinion.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This is true but with the way the Flames have been trading picks last 12 months, I wouldn't exactly call them patient.

That's the part I can't reconcile. The rebuild is over, with this team should the goal be higher than 'scrape into the playoffs?'

BT is all in, and the Flames are a bubble team. Did he build a bad roster or is the coach not maximizing the team he has?

I think Flames look great on paper, and I like the moves BT made - i.e. keeping prospects and what's left of picks the next year.

A lot of people were ready to pull the plug on GG after season one, not me. But two years in I think we know what we have, no? Do we really think year three will be better?

Obviously I take it all back if GG figures it out the team gets consistent over the 20 and he gets this team into the playoffs and playing well. I hope he does, but the cynic in me says we know what we have, it will be tight until the last day and that this team doesn't look ready to win a playoff series against anyone in the West.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

That many career years and still just bubble team? Really?

Would a consistent PP and PK not be on the coaches? The players are playing amazing, you said it yourself. How does Brouwer on the PP help these elites players? When it doesn't work, why stick with it for half a season?

What about the home record? What does that tell us (honest question)?

Why did the D struggle this year despite the upgrade? Is Hamonic terrible? No. This is one of the top three defense lineups in the league (or it should have been).

So some incredible years from a dozen plus players and just a bubble team.

I think what you are saying is the players did their jobs.

Sometimes numbers just shake out in odd ways.

The Flames had everything go right in 2014-15 and much less so go right this year.

the 3M line is in an epic nosedive for on ice shooting percentage, that wasn't expected.

They actually play better on home ice but the goaltending is better away from home.

I've said this about a dozen times so I know it won't gain any traction, but if a coach has a team out playing their opposition more often than not, then I have a tough time blaming him for results.

Now the PP I get.

As much as the unit was top ten last year, it was very strange to not try Dougie Hamilton and Matthew Tkachuk earlier.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The Homer goggles are working well last couple pages here.
This team lacks talent. Everyone hoped Bennett would be that guy by now, but he isn't - yet anyway.
So there are what they, a bubble team with some great top end talent enjoying best ever seasons under this coach.
If Flames miss the playoffs Gulutzan may be gone, otherwise it's not happening, nor should it.

This is my opinion.

It's a good opinion. There are a lot of stars on this team, and then two great forward lines. A lot of coaches have gotten much more from what GG has to work with on the 3rd and 4th.

I'm just saying, adding one or two forwards (and people want one of them to be elite) is going to be hard with the resources this team has to spend. Maybe impossible.

Are we so sure that GG is the guy? Isn't it easier to find an coach upgrade?

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sometimes numbers just shake out in odd ways.

The Flames had everything go right in 2014-15 and much less so go right this year.

the 3M line is in an epic nosedive for on ice shooting percentage, that wasn't expected.

They actually play better on home ice but the goaltending is better away from home.

I've said this about a dozen times so I know it won't gain any traction, but if a coach has a team out playing their opposition more often than not, then I have a tough time blaming him for results.

Now the PP I get.

As much as the unit was top ten last year, it was very strange to not try Dougie Hamilton and Matthew Tkachuk earlier.

As a fan I think what it comes down to for me is I have way more invested in the roster than I do the coach.

I am happy BT did not trade core players at the deadline. I'm still bullish on the kids and think the solutions to all the organization's gaps are in the system.

And looking to the offseason I'd rather see BT upgrade coaches versus trading Brodie and or Bennett. Maybe GG can get new assistants to run special teams with strong urging from BT. IDK

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The Homer goggles are working well last couple pages here.
This team lacks talent. Everyone hoped Bennett would be that guy by now, but he isn't - yet anyway.
So there are what they, a bubble team with some great top end talent enjoying best ever seasons under this coach.
If Flames miss the playoffs Gulutzan may be gone, otherwise it's not happening, nor should it.

This is my opinion.

"Yes" and "no."

I would agree that the team lacks talent insofar as they are not quite good enough to contend consistently for championships, but I also think that the margin of error is very thin, and the Flames are not far off. The addition of another scoring forward in the summer and another year of development for some of their key young players could be enough to get them into that conversation.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Yes" and "no."

I would agree that the team lacks talent insofar as they are not quite good enough to contend consistently for championships, but I also think that the margin of error is very thin, and the Flames are not far off. The addition of another scoring forward in the summer and another year of development for some of their key young players could be enough to get them into that conversation.

... and don't forget thoughts and prayers for the young defenseman that has to come in and eat Brodie's minutes if he is, as was speculated, the chip BT dangles for a scoring RW.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Pittsburgh did. Worked out well for them.

I'm pretty sure Fleury wasn't injured during the trade deadline.

I thought he got wiped out right before the playoffs started.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The only goalie of note that would be available is Raanta. I think what we have is as good or better. And trading assets for 2-3 games doesn't seem wise to me.

Agreed. 2-3 games is no biggie. If Smith ends up missing 7-10 games though, it would have been prudent to at least have picked up a proven backup.

They usually come super cheap anytime of year.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Agreed. 2-3 games is no biggie. If Smith ends up missing 7-10 games though, it would have been prudent to at least have picked up a proven backup.

They usually come super cheap anytime of year.

Isn't Ben Scrivens available? There has to be a bunch of guys like that around that could be signed for free if the kids fail.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sometimes numbers just shake out in odd ways.

The Flames had everything go right in 2014-15 and much less so go right this year.

the 3M line is in an epic nosedive for on ice shooting percentage, that wasn't expected.

They actually play better on home ice but the goaltending is better away from home.

I've said this about a dozen times so I know it won't gain any traction, but if a coach has a team out playing their opposition more often than not, then I have a tough time blaming him for results.

Now the PP I get.

As much as the unit was top ten last year, it was very strange to not try Dougie Hamilton and Matthew Tkachuk earlier.

You often cite "advanced stats" to support the argument that the Flames this year are playing better than their results indicate. However, as I posted earlier, "the strongest correlation to winning is goals for (0.853), goals against (-0.817). . . ."

Last season the Flames finished with a +5 GF/GA, the lowest of any western conference playoff team. This season the team is -3, 11th in the west. So, you can talk about trends, and good/bad luck, and underlying stats, but we're now 145 regular season games into Gulutzan's tenure, which is a big enough sample, IMO, to say "it is what it is" when it comes to the team under his leadership. And what "it is" under Gulutzan is a team that is just barely above water on the most important metric for team success, which is not a level that will consistently lead to a playoff spot, let alone the team being a contender.

The core of the franchise that the rebuild was aimed at is here, with almost every piece in their prime, and many futures assets spent to build it. If the Flames are going to contend, this is the core group of players that's going to
do it, so you'll have to excuse me if I'm not going to patiently watch them doggy paddle around with, again, their heads barely above water, and looking nothing like a contender.