United Airlines forcibly removes passenger on flight they (did not) overbook

[Acey]

Originally Posted by nik-

Which is fine, but THEY'RE taking that risk so THEY should be forced to deal with it in a way that minimizes impact on their customers. Forcing people off the plane so they can move their employees is total bull####.

Agree that they should just take the loss once you're already on board, but bumping people pre-board to save a flight elsewhere in the system still makes perfect sense to me. I agree that United screwed this up royally and you've missed your chance once you let people board.

I'm responding more to the posts saying that airlines shouldn't overbook at all.

[Dion]

United stocks unaffected

But for many airlines, incidents like Sunday's come as no surprise, one social media and brand expert said.

"The thing about airlines is they have a low happiness level to begin with," Andy Swan, the founder of social media monitor LikeFolio, told CNBC in an interview on Monday. Swan said he's not sure United ever "bounces back" from public relations nightmares like this — because it's really "nothing new."

This is likely the reason why United Continental's stock hardly reacted negatively to Sunday's debacle, with shares actually up about 1 percent by Monday afternoon, Swan added.

As he monitored social media sites like Facebook and Twitter to see how the public was responding to the video of a passenger being dragged, Swan said: "You see very negative reactions, lots of negative tweets about the brand. But the thing to remember is on airlines' [stock] it almost never matters."

Unless it's a real safety issue that blows up — like when the roof tore off a Southwest Airlines plane in 2011 — most companies don't see changes in consumer purchasing behavior based on these types of events, Swan told CNBC. And that's what Wall Street is concerned about — ticket sales and seats filled.

At the end of the day, bad brand image or not, many people are going to continue to buy their airline tickets based on metrics like the lowest price or the best arrival time, social media expert Swan said. It's not like Chipotle, for example, which has to fight to win back customers after its E. coli fiasco.

"Tomorrow we'll be talking about something else," Swan laughed.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/10/unite...hune-says.html

[oldschoolcalgary]

in retrospect, how much money would United have paid to avoid this huge story right about now?

5000? 10000?

forcibly removing a passenger is a bad, bad look

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Dion

United stocks unaffected



http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/10/unite...hune-says.html

stocks not being affected is not a surprise at all... even a lawsuit from that passenger isn't going to amount to much more than a nuisance fee. So shareholders aren't going to panic over one incident

Bigger question is that all things being equal, will a passenger outraged by that video going to choose United or another airline offering virtually the same price for a particular destination?

i know that i'd choose any airline other than United, if the price is pretty much the same.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

in retrospect, how much money would United have paid to avoid this huge story right about now?

5000? 10000?

forcibly removing a passenger is a bad, bad look

Considerably more than that I would guess. Depends how much it costs 'em, and then add to that.

It's the internet. The outrage will be forgotten in a week, but there are no doubt thousands of people who opted for a different airline when booking flights today. It won't last, but short term they look awful right now and people are avoiding them

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Isn't the penalty for no-shows the ticket cost?

Depends on the class of fare that you've booked.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

It can be quite surprising how much belly cargo can make for airlines. An economy fare passenger would lose out to it almost every time.

So now we know the real reason baggage gets "lost" all the time. Cheapest of the three...

Originally Posted by GirlySports

if the amount is fixed.. like at Air Canada they can't go over $650 then a nice person will volunteer to get everyone else on their way.

if you don't put a ceiling on it, it will become a game (to screw the airline out of more money). This should not be an auction.

It blows my mind that you're concerned about the potential risk of the airline getting screwed out of future money. If we are to accept the very logical explanation Acey gave earlier about the airlines playing this game regularly, because their data shows it's worth it, then it's reasonable to assume that the airline is ahead on this, or else they'd stop doing it. Since they're still doing it, they should have to pay what it costs to dislodge a passenger. If all the passengers deem their time to be worth more than the pittance offered, the pittance must increase, otherwise it's the paying, abiding passenger getting screwed.

Also, if it was this last minute emergency that they needed a flight crew in Louisville or else 168 other people would get delayed, it still changes nothing. An airline should have a contingency plan for this. Like, say, $20,000 in insurance. If four people don't bite on $5,000, then I guess the people on this flight indeed had more important stuff to do than the 168 people in Louisville, and the Louisville people get shafted the same way millions of people get shafted every year by mother nature.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by 4X4

So now we know the real reason baggage gets "lost" all the time. Cheapest of the three...



It blows my mind that you're concerned about the potential risk of the airline getting screwed out of future money. If we are to accept the very logical explanation Acey gave earlier about the airlines playing this game regularly, because their data shows it's worth it, then it's reasonable to assume that the airline is ahead on this, or else they'd stop doing it. Since they're still doing it, they should have to pay what it costs to dislodge a passenger. If all the passengers deem their time to be worth more than the pittance offered, the pittance must increase, otherwise it's the paying, abiding passenger getting screwed.

Also, if it was this last minute emergency that they needed a flight crew in Louisville or else 168 other people would get delayed, it still changes nothing. An airline should have a contingency plan for this. Like, say, $20,000 in insurance. If four people don't bite on $5,000, then I guess the people on this flight indeed had more important stuff to do than the 168 people in Louisville, and the Louisville people get shafted the same way millions of people get shafted every year by mother nature.

There will be a fight between two people who wanted to get off the plane for a large price and that video will go viral

[stampsx2]

I don't see why an airline rep can't stand up front and say, who would like a free night in a hotel in wherever you are paid for by the airline. There's always someone who wants extra family time or was a day short on their trip. Costs the airline $150 and saves everybody the emberassment. People always want free stuff.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

I don't see why an airline rep can't stand up front and say, who would like a free night in a hotel in wherever you are paid for by the airline. There's always someone who wants extra family time or was a day short on their trip. Costs the airline $150 and saves everybody the emberassment. People always want free stuff.

Ya... But....

They did that kind of stuff.

And selected someone who couldn't spend an extra night in Chicago....

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That would not work.

Where would a hypothetical scenario stop? $800 isn't enough, so $1,000? Then more and more if no one bites?

If everyone collectively said no, then the plane isn't flying. And if precedent is set that everyone can band together to disrupt travel, then that would be bad. Because let's be real, everybody is always looking to screw over someone every time. You give anyone an in like that and someone is going to take it.

Just look at how sue happy America is. Someone is going to be entitled enough to believe that their boarding pass might be a lottery ticket. I don't want to side with a corporation there, but when does it stop?

As has been said by many, airlines should not be able to overbook, but then they'll just raise their ticket prices to cover the risk.

No one is banding together. A group of strangers will not agree to split a pot of money when one stranger can take it all. Eventually when the pot is big enough someone will take it. There are tons of game shows that show the selfish nature of people.

That doctors time might be worth 20k the next day whereas a family of 4 coming back from vacation that scheduled a rest day before going to work might find 2k worth it for four seats. Either way eventually you will find the necessary number of people who value their time the least.

Airlines should be able to overbook if it is in their best interests. The consequence of overbooking should be having to pay enough money to solve the overbooking problem. An airline sells each seat for a different price based on demand and scarcity so it should be no different when they are buying a seat back from the customer. Prohibiting overbooking will drive up costs for everyone.

[calgarybornnraised]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Ya... But....

They did that kind of stuff.

And selected someone who couldn't spend an extra night in Chicago....

The airline should have offered a free deep dish.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It would be a tough case to win.

Once they've established a need to move passengers around for whatever reason people are going to be forced to be bumped - and get compensated. The issue is the fundamental lack of understanding how airplanes need to operate mixed with an overabundance of passenger entitlement. The odds are people will most likely miss their flight or be enticed by a voucher early. But in the offhand chance they don't, the scenario escalates because the system will randomize who must move. If the randomized voluntold people then refuse, they will be forcibly removed.

So I'm not sure what happened before the incident, but the passenger is in violation of federal law once he's been told he has to go.

I'll edit my post by suggesting you stick to what you know. Here you can advocate, that's fine, but suggesting you have knowledge... you have none on this topic.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

The airline should have offered a free deep dish.

No...that is what Delta does.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2...za-mxp-hln.hln

[Acey]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Also, if it was this last minute emergency that they needed a flight crew in Louisville or else 168 other people would get delayed, it still changes nothing. An airline should have a contingency plan for this. Like, say, $20,000 in insurance. If four people don't bite on $5,000, then I guess the people on this flight indeed had more important stuff to do than the 168 people in Louisville, and the Louisville people get shafted the same way millions of people get shafted every year by mother nature.

The contingency plan is that it's cheaper to give four people goodies at ORD than it is to lodge and feed a whole plane worth at Louisville or wherever. Obviously the plan went miserably awry, but we wouldn't have even heard about it had they bumped pre-board.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It's amazing how much people are willing to support security and law enforcement in the United States. It's becoming such a police state that people just kind of roll with it now on that level.

*Guy gets knocked out and bloodied and dragged off an airline without showing any violent behavior

"Well, certainly he could have handled that with a little more dignity".

"Guy embarrassed himself"

It really is pathetic.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

in retrospect, how much money would United have paid to avoid this huge story right about now?

5000? 10000?

forcibly removing a passenger is a bad, bad look

They could have taken the four employees who had to get to their destination, piled them in a limo and driven them to Rockford for far less than the cost of the damage control on this story.

[sun]

Whether he is a doctor or not is irrelevant. Surprised it keeps getting brought up.

[N-E-B]

Wow. That's garbage. And that animal abuse story sickens me.

I don't think I'll ever be flying United again. Garbage people.

[Minnie]

At this rate, it will have been cheaper for them to have just chartered a small aircraft to zip the crew members to Louisville.